Horary DIY

Lee

The first House itself can be used for overall Health, the best place to live, things that happen in my house (as it contains me), ships and their voyages - when I'm a passenger or have an investment in their cargo..
Hi Minderwiz,

I'm a bit confused by how the first house can be used for the quesited. Wouldn't you then have the same significator for the querent as for the quesited?
For a more detailed list see Skyscript
That site also has an index of what houses various things would go in, which might be useful:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/temples/index_list.html
 

Minderwiz

Hi Minderwiz,

I'm a bit confused by how the first house can be used for the quesited. Wouldn't you then have the same significator for the querent as for the quesited?

In this case the quesited is you, or rather an important characteristic of you - your body and it's wellbeing.

Lilly says that you would check to see that the Ascendant, The Lord of the Ascendant and the Moon are in good condition and not afflicted by the malefics including Lords 8, 12, 6 and 4. (by square or opposition)

Thus your significator in an angular house, direct and swift in motion and in one of it's own dignities, (the higher the better) is an indication that your health is good.

Similarly the Venus or Jupiter conjunct the Ascendant would be a good sign, Saturn or Mars conjunct would not (unless they were the Ascendant ruler or had their exaltation there)

Check all three significators (Ascendant, its ruler and the Moon) if all three are fine so are you. To the extent that one or more is afflicted or weak so your health will have to be revised down.

The default here is your current knowledge of your health - so if you have regular checks and are normally bouncing with health, the bad indications in the chart will have to be quite strong to make you go off and consult a doctor. If your health is normally poor, a series of good indications in the chart suggests that it is no worse than normal. If your health is changing then the chart will indicate whether it is improving or deteriorating.
 

Lee

More questions. :) I know this is a lot of questions and I pondered whether it would be easier for you all in one post like this, or in separate posts. Please let me know if it's easier in separate posts; I want it to be as easy as possible for you. I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say we're truly grateful for all the time and effort you're putting into this, and for your patience with us.
Minderwiz said:
When the the Moon is Void of Course. For Lilly this means that the Moon will not apply to a major aspect before it changes sign or if it does the major aspect will not be completed in the early degrees of the next sign.
How do you spot a Void of Course Moon? As the Moon moves through the sign, of course the other planets are in motion as well, so I'm having a hard time with how one would figure out whether it will make aspects to other planets before it changes sign.
press F2

You will find Saturn as the first planet in the list and looking along the row, you will see that the first column is Saturn itself and it has ‘4+3’ in it. This tells us that Saturn is both the exaltation ruler and the Triplicity ruler of Libra. Looking further along we will see that Venus scores 5 (it’s the ruler of Libra), Mars scores 2 (Saturn is in the Terms of Mars) and Jupiter scores 1 (Saturn is in the Face of Jupiter). These latter two are also shown on the chart wheel if you look for Libra and Saturn's place at the end of the sign.
A bit confused by this... in response to SilentBreeze's question you said that we really only look at where the planet's row and column intersect. I just want to be sure there's not some significance I'm missing in terms of what Venus's score, Mars's score, etc. is for Saturn.
Frawley also uses the dignities to give some impression of what the querent is interested in. In this case Venus gives the major concern, followed by Saturn, and then possibly Mars and Jupiter. Venus is both a natural symbol of romance, and in tis chart has some involvement in the seventh (where Venus is interecepted) and in the Second which has Taurus on the cusp. So we have some link to the seventh but also possibly there might be some feelings about her own resources. Saturn is her own significators, so there’s some self interest here – not in a negative way but a concern for her own future.
I'm not understanding how Venus, Mars and Jupiter come into it -- unless it relates to my question above? In that case I sort of understand it, but I don't really understand what it means to say that Venus scores 5 in Saturn's row. I think there's some relationship there that I'm not grasping. Is it simply saying that if Venus were in that spot, it would score 5?
Lastly we look for any aspects to Saturn from either malefic or benefics Here we are looking for close applying aspects. In Horary applying aspects indicate things that are in the future, separating aspects things in the past.
Is there any easy way to spot applying or separating aspects if they are out of orb? An aspect may not show up as an aspect on the aspect grid. Do we just need to manually, as it were, scan the grid and look for numbers close to the aspect degrees?
In the twelfth House is cadent to the Ascendant and inconjunct the Ascendant. Being inconjunct means that planets in the house cannot be 'seen' and one of the meanings of the twelfth is hidden or secret or behind the scenes. So whilst Nytebugg is very visible, the potential boyfriend is not.
Is the reason planets in the 12th house can't be seen from the 1st house because it's the next house over?
Lilly allows two further significators to be used - the Sun for him and Venus for her - but only if these secondary significators are not already in play
I can't help asking, what about if it were a same-sex relationship?
they say nothing about the quesited and hence the matter being perfected.

3. If there is still no connection or it is not a relationship question check the Moon for a chance of perfection.
I was unsure what you meant by "perfected" and "perfection" here.
There is a lot of information for the beginner.
There certainly is! :bugeyed: I knew this would be hard but it's even harder than I thought. A challenge for sure!
Is there any case where you would need to check is a planet falls into a different planets essential dignity? Or is it mostly that you find where the same planet intersects?

Also if the house where the questied falls under also has a planet in it do you read for the planet or the sign that if falls under it, and the ruler of that sign?
SilentBreeze has good questions here, I wondered about them as well.

One more question -- I was curious as to the best way to handle accidental dignities. Not to sound lazy, but it seems like a lot of work to go down the list for each significator to figure its accidental dignity score. (Although I suppose once one is accustomed to it, it's probably not as much work as it seems when it's all new.) Do Janus or Solar Fire automatically calculate these? Or is it better for us to do them manually, so as to learn what they're really about?
 

Minderwiz

More questions. :) I know this is a lot of questions and I pondered whether it would be easier for you all in one post like this, or in separate posts. Please let me know if it's easier in separate posts; I want it to be as easy as possible for you. I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say we're truly grateful for all the time and effort you're putting into this, and for your patience with us.

Thanks Lee. I don't mind how you present your questiions - I'd much rather people raised issues as and when they arise, rather than letting it go over their heads - in a classroom I can tell if people are understanding or not from the expression on their faces, and when it's time to start again with some fresh examples. Here I'm dependent on direct questions to know what bits need revisiting and what bits are understood. So your questions are just what I need - honestly :)

Lee said:
How do you spot a Void of Course Moon? As the Moon moves through the sign, of course the other planets are in motion as well, so I'm having a hard time with how one would figure out whether it will make aspects to other planets before it changes sign.

The key is that the planet to which the Moon applies is either in an appropriate sign (that is one sextile, square, trine or in opposition to the Moon's current sign) and in a later degree than the Moon or in a very early degree of the 'next' sign and within the Moon's orb at it's current location. For example Moon at 20 degrees Capricorn will aspect any planet in Capricorn at a later degree, or any planet in Pisces, Aries, Taurus or Cancer which is also further on than 20 degrees. To shorten the process look for planets in a greater degree of their sign than the Moon and rule out any in the next sign on (Aquarius in this case) or in the sign before the Moon's opposition (Gemini in this case) for your initial check.

If no planet exists in the last 10 degrees of those signs, then remember that the Moon's orb is 12 degrees, look for any planet at 2 degrees or less in Aquarius (the Moon is applying to a conjunction) Aries (the Moon is applying to a sextile), Taurus (the Moon is applying to a square), Gemini (the Moon is applying to a trine), and Leo (the Moon is applying to an opposition). That might sound complicated but I just chec firstly for any planet in an early degree of a sign and if I find one I check to see if it's a major aspect away from the Moon's next sign and within the Moon's current orb.

I'd always use a visual check rather than rely on software - Solar Fire will tell me that the Moon is VOC but on inspection I can see that a manor aspect is forming to a planet out of sign. What matters is the application process has started. This would be also be true if we shifted the Moon to 29 degrees of Capricorn, it be well into the application to a planet at 2 degres, as described above. I've just rechecked Lilly and he simply requires application before the sign change. So add 12 degrees to the Moon's current degree and if that takes
you into the next sign just check for planets in that degree or lower as described above. Do not consider the orbs of the planet that the Moon is applying too, just use the Moon's orb alone.


Lee said:
A bit confused by this... in response to SilentBreeze's question you said that we really only look at where the planet's row and column intersect. I just want to be sure there's not some significance I'm missing in terms of what Venus's score, Mars's score, etc. is for Saturn.

The intersection of the planet's row and column give you it's essential dignity if any. It also tells you if the planet is Peregrine (nothing in that cell). Sadly it doesn't tell you if it's in Fall or Detriment, as Solar Fire does.

The values in the other cells for Venus, Mars etc I'll deal with below in answer to your follow up question.

Lee said:
I'm not understanding how Venus, Mars and Jupiter come into it -- unless it relates to my question above? In that case I sort of understand it, but I don't really understand what it means to say that Venus scores 5 in Saturn's row. I think there's some relationship there that I'm not grasping. Is it simply saying that if Venus were in that spot, it would score 5?

Using Venus as the example, its score of 5 in Saturn's row means that Saturn is in a sign ruled by Venus - either Taurus or Libra - we know from the chart that Saturn is in Libra and we have this confirmed by the '4' in Saturn's cell) So Venus is the sign ruler at the place where Saturn is. The same holds for any other planet that has a score in Saturn's row. Thus the 1 for Jupiter means that Saturn is in the Face or Decan of Jupiter and the 2 for Mars, means that Saturn is in the terms of Mars. The scores from other planets may help you in determining interest or motive if you wish to make use of Frawley's approach but at this stage I would say ignore that. The other use is to check for a mutual reception. We'll look at that later, but for the moment we'll ignore it too.

Lee said:
Is there any easy way to spot applying or separating aspects if they are out of orb? An aspect may not show up as an aspect on the aspect grid. Do we just need to manually, as it were, scan the grid and look for numbers close to the aspect degrees?

Don't bother with aspects that are out of orb they don't affect the reading to any extentat this stage' or even at most stages. The only time they have any real input now is if you are checking the Moon's VOC in which case any planet further on in the same sign as the Moon stops it from being VOC even if the conjunction is not yet applying.

Lee said:
Is the reason planets in the 12th house can't be seen from the 1st house because it's the next house over?

Exactly right!!! The same would strictly speaking hold for the second, sixth and eighth houses, none of whic makes a major aspect to the Ascendant. The twelfth also has the connotations of being concerned with hidden or secret things. That is probably derived from it being inconjunct to the Ascendant.

Lee said:
I can't help asking, what about if it were a same-sex relationship?

That's a good question and certainly one that I've never seen a traditional Astrologer read for - you won't find one in Lilly LOL. I would use the same two additional significators of Venus and the Sun. Again strictly speaking these significators are used in marriage questions but we now have civil partnerships for same sex couples, and indeed the civil ceremony or a religious ceremony is not needed to establish some rights for all couples (depending on jurisdiction).

Lee said:
I was unsure what you meant by "perfected" and "perfection" here.

'Perfected' is when the aspect is completed - the two planets occupy the same degree of their relative signs (or the same sign if it's a conjunction). The aspect 'perfected' between significators is a sign that the question asked about will be brought to 'perfection' - the matter will be resolved favourably. It's not the only criterion but it's a good one.

Leel said:
SilentBreeze has good questions here, I wondered about them as well.

I must admit I didn't get round to answering that one and I'll be the gentleman and reply separately to SilentBreeze's question :)

Lee said:
One more question -- I was curious as to the best way to handle accidental dignities. Not to sound lazy, but it seems like a lot of work to go down the list for each significator to figure its accidental dignity score. (Although I suppose once one is accustomed to it, it's probably not as much work as it seems when it's all new.) Do Janus or Solar Fire automatically calculate these? Or is it better for us to do them manually, so as to learn what they're really about?

Janus does given the calculations of Accidental Dignities but Solar Fire does not. I usually consider house position, whether retrograde or direct, whether combust or under the beams and whether in partile trine or sextile to Jupiter and Venus or partile square or opposition to Mars and Saturn.

All of those are easily spotted from the chart. I will only use orentality or speed if it is going to make a difference (that is there's no clear evidence as yet that the matter will come about and I decide that it's worth doing additional checks) In your case I wouldn't bother with these yet. The sam goes for aspects with fixed stars.

Lee said:
There certainly is! :bugeyed: I knew this would be hard but it's even harder than I thought. A challenge for sure!

What we need is a few more questions to work through, so can I suggest you think of a question, cast the chart and post it in this thread. Then we can work through it together, with some comments and questions from others I hope. Don't try to do everything at once, just check that you can ask a question that is clear, can cast a chart and hopefully identify the significators (not always easy) then we'll work through together.
 

Minderwiz

Is there any case where you would need to check is a planet falls into a different planets essential dignity? Or is it mostly that you find where the same planet intersects?

Also if the house where the questied falls under also has a planet in it do you read for the planet or the sign that if falls under it, and the ruler of that sign?

Your main concern at this stage is the essential dignity of the significator planet, so the most important cell is that one at the intersection of the planet's row and column.

Later on we'll come across mutual receptions, where one planet is in the dignity of another, and that other planet is also in a dignity of the first planet. The best known ones are by mutual rulership, e.g. Saturn in Libra and Venus in Aquarius. However mutual reception can include the other dignities. Solar Fire kindly finds them for you but in Morinus you would have to do a manual check. At the beginner's stage just keep to a planet's own dignity and we'll take a separate look at mutual reception, when one crops up in a question.

You can also use the main dignities (Rulership, Exaltation and Triplicity) to infer something about the querent or quesited - if they are people - you can infer their motives or interets. That's a bit advanced yet, so we will again look at it later.

If a house has a planet in it (that is not the ruler and not the significator of the querent) I only bother with it if I'm forced to use it as the significator of the quesited, that is the house ruler is already the significator of the querent, and there's no exaltation planet (such as in Aquarius or Gemini) that I can use instead. In which case I would assess it's essential dignity and proceed as usual, with it as the signifcator of the questited. This does happen but quite rarely.

Now it's also possible that it might also come into play in some questions, either as part of a supplementary question, or through providing helpful aspects. For example the querent's significator and the quesited's significator might not aspect but both may aspect this planet in the house of the quesited - in which case I'd take that as evidence that the question might come to a positive conclusion However again this should not be a primary concern, in a horary. Alternatively it might be a benefic or malefic in which case I will check it's own essential dignity to see if it is likely to help or hinder the affairs of tha house. Only do as little as you need is a good rule. Indeed Frawley's injunction it to keep it as simple as possible. And now you realise why :)

Also one of Frawley's other rules is that it's alright to be wrong! That is an Astrologer can get it wrong or make mistakes - we learn from them through revisiting the chart to see what we missed. When you're learning you will certainly miss things or make mistakes - as you gather more information and knowledge those errors will begin to diminish but they will never go away entirely - we're only human after all.

Learning involves taking the plunge and trying to answer a question, no matter how small your knowedge doing it helps and if you post here I can provide guidance or help as and when you need it.

As a beginner, keep to identifying the significator's of the querent and the quesited, then;

check that there is essential dignity and that the two are in an applying aspect.

Good house placement, being direct and not combust or under the beams and being in good aspect to benefics adds more evidence of success,

Being in essential debility, being in a poor house, being retrograde or combust/under the beams, or in hard aspect to a malefic is evidence that the matter will not come to success or will do so only with great difficulty.

In practice you are likely to find a mixture of positive and negative evidence ('testimonies' in traditional language) it's the balane between them that decides, i.e more testimonies for the matter being considered than against it suggests that it will come about.

A general request

This thread can no9t only be used for those wanting to try their hand, it can also be used by someone just wanting to ask a question - my answering it will help the learning process of others as well.
 

Lee

Indeed Frawley's injunction it to keep it as simple as possible. And now you realise why :)
Yes. :D

Ok, here's a chart and a question.

The chart is for 4:05 p.m., January 23, 2012. Location is Bethesda, Maryland (77 degrees 06 W, 38 degrees 58 N) (you can find this if you do a search in Morinus). GMT is -5 for Eastern Standard Time. (Chart is attached to this post.)

The question: I work as an independent contractor. All my work comes through one agency. Last year was very good, but for the past few months I've been in an extended slump, and my income has been low. My question is: Will the pace and quality of the work pick back up within two weeks? This issue is actually causing me some anxiety, and thus one in which I have intense interest.

Significators: I am the querent, so my significator is the Moon, which is in Aquarius in the 7th house.

The quesited could have been a number of things -- the agency as an entity, or the principal of the agency who assigns the work, or even the industry itself, whose slowness is probably responsible for my own slowed work. I decided to use the agency as an entity, because for all I know, the principal of the agency may at times delegate the scheduling to an employee, so I'm probably better off using the agency as the quesited rather than any specific person. The 10th house covers job and employer, so I'm using the 10th for the agency. That makes the significator Mars, which is in Virgo in the 3rd house.

That's as far as I'll go at the moment, except preliminarily (and hopefully correctly) to note that both significators are peregrine (no essential dignity), and that the Moon is combust.
 

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Minderwiz

Thanks Lee,

I certainly understand your question, so it's clear that you did when you cast the chart. So step one is OK.

Step two is to identify the significators and the Moon is definitely yours. The agency is a little bit awkward for an outsider, it's not directly your employer, as you are freelance, on the other hand it seems to be responsible for 100% of your income and appears to be in the same relatonship to you as an employer. Let's take it for your employer for the reading. Mars therefore is the significator of the agency. However an alternative relationship might be one of buyer (the agency) and seller (you), that might be a real alternative if the agency decides from whom to buy in services and when.

Looking at the Moon, it is indeed Peregrine, so you are not strong at the moment in relation to work (which indeed is the background to the chart). There's worse news to come -the Moon is conjunct the eighth house cusp. If we had been using Placidus houses it would have been clearly in the eighth but that's little comfort as traditionally a planet within 5 degrees of the House cusp is treated as being in that house. So we have an eighth House Moon which piles on accidental dignity - you are not well placed to deal with this situation Yes the Moon is also combust but it's leaving combustion, and it's fast (well just short of Frawley's definition of fast but above it's average speed). So at least there is some marginally good news, though after leaving combustion it will still be under the beams. Tecnically the Moon is occidental or gaining in light, although at the moment of the chart it could not be seen The latter point is again a positive one. So the chart confirms that you are not in a good situation and that you have little power to influence the outcome.

What about the agency Mars appears to be Peregrine, if so the agency too has little power to affect the outcome Placed in the third House, it is in a house that is is cadent and as the lowest possible positive score for placement It's in a better situation to act than you but it's power is low.

There's no major aspect forming between the Moon and Mars. So that does not suggest more work coming.

There's a number of things we could look at to see if there's any other hope:

We could check for a link by antisicia

We could check to see if a third party might intervene

We could re-examine the original allocation of the tenth to the agency and ask if it is more reasonable to treat it as a buyer

Now you look on the agency as an employer, so I'm loathe to do that, without you reconsidering the relationship but at this stage I'm flagging it up as an option.

One further consideration - is the agency as weak as the reading to date suggests? There may be a way of re-evaluating it's position using mutual receptions.
 

Minderwiz

Lee Horary - some further considerations

I flagged up some possible avenues of exploration but it was late (well late here :) ) so I didn't take them further but I think there's some avenues here for further exploration. I'm going to do this in two posts. The first using the original significators, the second considering the situation as one of buying and selling professional services.

Further exploration of original significators

Lee's chart has no connection between Moon and Mars, either is in a dignity of the other and there is no major aspect forming between them. At the moment this suggests that things will not improve over what they are now, thought Lee's significator, the Moon, has at least two things going for it, it is fast and it is gaining in light. But this does not really offset the combustion, eighth house placement and peregrine nature of the Moon.

Contact by antiscia

With no contact by aspect the next thing I would check is contact by antiscia. That is the two are equally spaced from the solstice line of zero Cancer to zero Capricorn. This is easily done in Morinus by using Tables...Antiscia and looking up either one of the two significators. If we do this for Mars, which is the first one we come to, we find its antiscion is 18 degrees 20 minutes of Libra - this is nowhere near the Moon's position in Aquarius so there is no contact. We can double check by looking at the antiscion of the Moon, which is 19 degrees 47 minutes of Scorpio. We would want the antiscion of one to be within orb of the zodiacal placement of the other.

The aid of a third party

Sometimes a third party might enter in and help. There are two quick ways to check for this. The first is called Translation of Light and involves one of the significators being aspecte by a faster planet, which will then go on and aspect the other significator. Usually this is the Moon or Mercury as the two fastest planets. However here the Moon is one of the significators and there's no planet fast enough to catch it and bring the light from Mars (it would previously have had to aspect Mars).

The second is that the faster of the two significators - Moon in this case - aspects a slower planet than the other significator (Mars), which in turn will be aspected by that other significator. This is called Collection of Light and with Mars as the slower of the two significators, would usually involve Jupiter or Saturn as the third party.l That is the Moon would have to aspect one of those two and then later on Mars aspects the self same planet. A visual check shows that Saturn in Libra is in the next sign to Mars, and so Mars cannot make a major aspect to it, even if the Moon aspects it. Jupiter is in 1 degree Taurus and whilst it's in the Moon's exaltation, it is in fewer degrees than the Moon, so the square aspect has passed.

I would also check to see the speeds of Venus or Mercury, if they are approaching their station they might well be slow enough for Mars to catch them but in this case it's Mars that's approaching it's station and is very slow. (To check speeds use 'Tables...Speed)

So no chance here of a third party intervention. And the slowness of Mars reflects badly on the agency's business - it looks to be static at the moment and the prospect is for it to decline (Mars will station retrograde).

Mutual Reception

We are now down to a very bad outlook on this reading. I raised the issue of whether Mars was really peregrine in my last post.

Using our table of dignities we can see that Mars is in both the sign and exaltation of Mercury. But Mercury is in Capricorn, the exaltation of Mars - both have a mutual interest. What is more they are in a partile trine. In a strict definition of mutual reception, there must be not only the position in a dignity of the other but also an aspect between them. Even though the trine is just past perfection it is still in the same degree (24th) of the sign. Moreover Mercury is applying to a conjunction with the Sun., which is the ruler of Lee's second house of resources and money. So is this someone coming to the rescue of Lee's finances (which appear in a bad way as the Sun is in detriment)? Mercury here could be a client of the agency and given both it's nature and it's rulership of the third house in the chart, if Lee's work has anything to do with computers, accounts, graphics, or communications then we might have something. If so I'd guess that this was an old and favoured client, not particularly a new one.
 

Ronia

How about my question from the previous thread? Will I start a desired job/career by the end of this year? Job would be the 6th house, career the 10th, do I look at both rulers to determine what will be my employment status?

Also, it's not possible for me to install any new programs on my computer, how do I calculate these essential dignities? I don't understand the lists on Skyscript... They require calculation which I don't know how to do.