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Intensive Deck Study Support Thread ~ Part 2

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rwcarter's Avatar
rwcarter  rwcarter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sapienza
the matrix sounds interesting, I love putting things into tables
You sure we weren't separated at birth?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sapienza
Rodney, just wanted to say, I got a copy of the Ancient Egyptian Tarot from e-bay and it arrived today. Obviously I'm not going to be using it right now, but it is a beautiful deck. I'm so pleased to finally own a copy. I can see now why you have been working with it so long.
Well, whenever you do get around to working with the deck, there's a fully populated Study Group for it. Many of the threads only contain my ideas, so be sure to post your own ideas too.

Rodney
Top   #761
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sapienza
Onyx, I agree with Rodney. I really like your ideas. In fact, the more I hear about TdM's in this thread, the more I feel drawn to work with one....but for now, I'm sticking with the Thoth. I'm looking forward to hearing more of your ideas though....the matrix sounds interesting, I love putting things into tables

My path to this time with the TdM, went through the Thoth. I first got started with the Liber T. (I still love that deck.) Then to the Thoth which has nonpictoral pips and then took the big dive when I started to listen to The Process.

I LOVE tables, charts, diagrams and patterns. I have many different Tarot charts in my notes. I have charts where I have cross comparison of LWB meanings. I used charts to figure out the Courts. One of the first things I do with a new deck is lay them out in order all over the floor of my living room.

So as I was visualizing this new idea I took my idea of the Suit meanings and then took each number in mind and carried it through the suits. For instance, Three's have always been about creativity, expansion and growth. So I thought of Wands. What is the expansion in building? Some keywords I thought about were new projects, additions, making room for something new. Then I thought of Cups. What is the expansion in Nourishment? This lead me to think about new tastes, new flavors, or even cooking for others and donating to a food bank. Then I had an idea for a reversed meaning of gluttony, over indulging or not sharing that awesome last piece of pie. The Swords came to mind. Where does my quest need to expand. What do I need to fight to maintain growth? Then a practical idea of supporting the creative in my community, such as donating books to a library, buying color pencils and sketch book for the art department of local high school or possibly to an art therapy class at my local battered women's shelter. (I liked this idea far better than the traditional meaning of sorrow.) Finally, I thought of Coins. Humm . . . Three coins could represent growth in my investments, saving money or considering how I can be more expansive in my giving to my savings account.

The hard part of this idea was trying to figure out some way to remember it before I could get back home to piece of paper and a pencil! Thank goodness, it was so logical that I pretty much remember the details because I was able to grasp the overall concept.
Top   #762
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I like it a lot, Onyx. You know, it would be perfectly suitable (IMO) for you to post such a tour de force in the TdM forum, for all to enjoy, apply, augment, toss out . . . a series of posts? Or perhaps a scanned table, as I've seen done in that forum?

I am fascinated, and I'm chalking all these ideas up against the day I tackle a TdM. In my case, the entirely pedestrian Universal Marseille . . . no swanky Hadar or Vieville or Noblet for moi

\m/ Kat
Top   #763
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I've been checking in here - I couldn't find another tarot deck I wanted to spend a long amount of time with so I'm still using the Liber T but I've also started to learn how to read Lenormand cards - I'm sharing my time between the tarot sections and the oracle sections.

So at the moment I'm doing more lurking in this thread than posting. I still use my Liber T regularly but I am enjoying the change of scenery with the Lenormands I have.
Top   #764
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Hi Emily,
I´m another lurker in this thread I am IDSíng with the Faerie Tarot but I never really know what to write about it here.. So, I am also just checking in and learning from what the others write and enjoying it a lot
Top   #765
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onyx
I have taken on this style of decks out of a sense of need to be free of the extra. It is a bit of a Tarot cleansing. ... The reason I love the TdM is the freedom that no one who can tell me that it will not work. The TdM doesn't limit me from applying these meanings to the cards. I don't know if I will stick with it forever, or go back to my already memorized meanings, but I have the freedom to give it a try.

Just a moment with what I am learning in my IDS.

Onyx.
Bravo, Onyx! I really love the way you are looking at the suits. Next you just need to throw out the numerology and become TOTALLY free! When you're ready. <evil grin>

Mosaica
Top   #766
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mosaica
Bravo, Onyx! I really love the way you are looking at the suits. Next you just need to throw out the numerology and become TOTALLY free! When you're ready. <evil grin>

Mosaica
Oh now you may have gone too far. I love the numbers! I love the sequences and the order. Now I am considering throwing out my preconceived notion of what the numbers mean and recreate it myself too. I have been working for about a year on my own ideas for the numbers. I like them as progressions and as similar across the suits but individual based on their suits. I want to see a two and know that if

I like that I can give myself options for what the cards mean and yet as I said before I love the structure of the order that has placed meanings on the cards. I worry if I get to free with the card's meaning that the whole structure will just collapse into meaninglessness. I am just reminding myself that there is an idea of freedom as defined as being able to choose the rules to follow. Freedom isn’t anarchy. I like freedom but despise anarchy.

Onyx.
Top   #767
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Perfect TdM moment


I have said before that I have come to this IDS as a need to be stripped of the image.

I had a sitter yesterday that needed to have a bit of encouragement as she deals with a issue concerning a child. As I was doing the reading things were going well and I was just thrilled. Then the outcome card was the 10 of Swords. I breathed a sigh of relief I can only imagine what her response would have been if I had been using the RWS deck. It was clear to me that this cards was not talkig about "Ruin" but a completion of a legal battle and her need to find closure to move on in a healthy way.

It was interesting because so many decks consider this a hugely dark card and it doesn't have to be.

Onyx.
Top   #768
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onyx

It was interesting because so many decks consider this a hugely dark card and it doesn't have to be.
.
Lately I too have been discovering that the energy behind certain cards is not necessarily directed in an expected way. The ten of swords for instance being the final collapse of something you want collapsed, rather than the personal ruin thing - or the 3 of cups being the celebration of your misfortune rather than the expected readings.

For experienced readers this might be an obvious point, but to me it was an epiphany when I realized that the forces embodied are neither for or against the querent per se. This opens up a whole new can of worms!
Top   #769
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thorhammer
*grumbles* This whole IDS thing has poisoned me!
Would that be poisoned in a good way?
Quote:
Originally Posted by thorhammer
Maybe I need to buckle down again, with the Thoth/Liber T. Been walking around it for a while now, maybe it'll be nice to study for the long hot summer that approaches.

\m/ Kat
Sounds good - though WoC feels like a wonderfully autumnal deck to me. Are you sure you want a change?

OOPS. You're in Oz. Of course the WoC doesn't work for you there!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Onyx
Good News!!!! I got my Fournier Marseille deck today and I love it already. The cards are made of the strangest stuff, I don't know, I think it might even be paper. How novel! Joking! I love the size and the colors are vibrant and the backs are calming. Very little border and a great size make this a contender in the race for the IDS. I am still anxious to get my 1JJ Swiss but it it takes much longer then it might just have to wait.
I love the Fournier, but find the coloring of the backgrounds a bit restrictive elementally for me. I've been working with Mel's "batons = earth; coupes = air; epees = fire; deniers = water", and none of those make sense with the Fournier's coloring, unfortunately.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onyx
I am very excited to be using the TdM for my IDS. The major issue for me is to strip down my Tarot practice and the work to build it up again.

I have been so drawn to the pictorial pips because at first they are a great place to launch into Tarot. Also I have in the past looked at reading tarot spreads as a bit like reading a comic.
That's a very interesting way to think of it, especially with decks which aren't "fine art" kind of decks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onyx
I forgot to say this in the previous post. I like that the coloring is both vivid and different. I have long associated certain coloring with certain suits because that is what I have read in books.

I want a deck that can say to me "Can Green be the color of Wands?" If wands represent fire, does that have to mean that they can't be green? What if wands can represent earth?
Yes!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onyx
I have an opinion now but what is the basis of that opinion? what I have read in books or what I have read in the cards?

Seize the Day! Question Authority! If it works, Work it! are three mottos for my IDS.
Love it!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onyx
Since I couldn't sleep I started to consider the suits. I started out with Cups. I know what I normally associate the suit with but I thought what else could it mean?

Sense I work as a bartender I began to think of the cups as goblets. I then thought about wine and how it is considered liquid food. From there, I thought of food as nourishment. How can the suit of Cups illustrate the many different needs in my life that need nourishment? How can the Cups represent how I get nourishment and how I help to nourish others?
In Mel's system, Coupes are Air - but not the mental/conflict-oriented air of the RWS and GD systems. In this case, it's Air as *Sanguine* - flirty, inconstant, life of the party... full of socialization. I see an association with nourishment as you read above - as most often social gatherings are gatherings which involve FOOD!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onyx
Next was the Suit of Wands. Wands, Rods, and Staves all seemed warlike and I wasn't crazy about that association, especially since there is the suit of Swords. I then consider wands are made of wood. Lumber is a form of wood. Lumber is used in construction. Then it hit me. How can Wands represent the building that I do in life? The lattice work on the Wands suit got me to consider the process, effort and resources that are all part of the building process.
Again, in Mel's system, Batons are Melancholic - the earth temperament... and he associates Batons with things that are *laborious*, which require effort to bring to fruition. I love your keyword of "building processes".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onyx
The suit of Swords came easily as a representation of what I am willing to fight for and defend. The awesome question, "What is my knightly quest?" This is a powerful illustration of how I direct my efforts to right the wrongs of the world. This can show how I help the poor, serve the king, and rescue the fair maiden. Sure it can be cheesy if done poorly but I know that we as people often forget that each day is a battle to do the right thing and stand up to the darkness in life.
Epees are choleric, fire - and our usual way of thinking of the fire element is basically the Neo-Platonic (I think that's the right term...) way of seeing fire. In this case, it's all about conflict - but again I love your Quest keyword.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onyx
The Suit of Coins, which I am so used to thinking of as Pentacles, came to a new perspective. This is the spending of my life. What am I giving away? What I have given away? What am I getting back for it? Am I making good investments? Am I throwing away, spending or investing? What will I have to show for all my work when I am done?
Deniers are water/Phlegmatic. I don't understand this one well enough to comment right now!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onyx
Each of these four ideas worked in my head, then I started to look at the idea of numerology and how it could fit in to this pattern. I will spare you but I came up with a matrix that could work.
I, for one, would love to see the matrix you came up with!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onyx
Now was it something that was limiting or could it work in different types of questions. Work, Romance, Spiritual? I think it will. I am in the process of still finding out the details but during this quite time in the back of a mini-van I found a way that was unique and personal for the cards.

The reason I love the TdM is the freedom that no one who can tell me that it will not work. The TdM doesn't limit me from applying these meanings to the cards. I don't know if I will stick with it forever, or go back to my already memorized meanings, but I have the freedom to give it a try.
Brilliant. I absolutely agree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onyx
So as I was visualizing this new idea I took my idea of the Suit meanings and then took each number in mind and carried it through the suits. For instance, Three's have always been about creativity, expansion and growth. So I thought of Wands. What is the expansion in building? Some keywords I thought about were new projects, additions, making room for something new. Then I thought of Cups. What is the expansion in Nourishment? This lead me to think about new tastes, new flavors, or even cooking for others and donating to a food bank. Then I had an idea for a reversed meaning of gluttony, over indulging or not sharing that awesome last piece of pie. The Swords came to mind. Where does my quest need to expand. What do I need to fight to maintain growth? Then a practical idea of supporting the creative in my community, such as donating books to a library, buying color pencils and sketch book for the art department of local high school or possibly to an art therapy class at my local battered women's shelter. (I liked this idea far better than the traditional meaning of sorrow.) Finally, I thought of Coins. Humm . . . Three coins could represent growth in my investments, saving money or considering how I can be more expansive in my giving to my savings account.

The hard part of this idea was trying to figure out some way to remember it before I could get back home to piece of paper and a pencil! Thank goodness, it was so logical that I pretty much remember the details because I was able to grasp the overall concept.
Just beautiful. I wish I had something constructive to add...
Quote:
Originally Posted by thorhammer
I like it a lot, Onyx. You know, it would be perfectly suitable (IMO) for you to post such a tour de force in the TdM forum, for all to enjoy, apply, augment, toss out . . . a series of posts? Or perhaps a scanned table, as I've seen done in that forum?

I am fascinated, and I'm chalking all these ideas up against the day I tackle a TdM. In my case, the entirely pedestrian Universal Marseille . . . no swanky Hadar or Vieville or Noblet for moi

\m/ Kat
I agree with Kat. Post your thoughts in the TdM forum - fresh blood is always welcome there!

For my part - my IDS ended with a whimper. Work had gotten so crazy that I didn't have the time or the heart to do anything re: Hadar.

Yesterday I started thinking about either starting again with another deck, or continuing with the Hadar. I got out several handfuls of decks: 1JJ Swiss, Ancient Italian, Ukiyoe, Roy Nissanka, Mini Jodo/Camoin, Vieville... and realized that as much as I appreciated all of them, the only decks that I wanted to consider looking at for weeks at a time were the Hadar, Mini Jodo, and the Vieville! My plan is to do a couple of readings with all three, and see which one feels right. The Hadar shuffles like a dream (but seems to have a bad temper!), while the edges of the Vieville are not polished, and are a wee bit hard on my thumbs when I riffle them. I very briefly considered Umbraeing them but then thought the better of it, as it's severely OOP and not available at all. The Mini Jodo/Camoin is very cute, and I was looking into the Camoin-style of TdM reading anyway.

Watch this space! I'll probably update tomorrow..
Top   #770

 





 


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