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As with most of my decks, I do not use them often, but they are two decks - Ancient Italian and Classic Tarot - that I would never part with.

I'm grateful to this thread for introducing me to them. I must put them on my short list for who to play with next.
Top   #221
Alan Ross  Alan Ross is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sapienza
So, how are others feeling? Did your time with these decks turn out to be a quick fling, or a long term love affair? Fond memories either way I hope.
I'm still in love with my Italian decks. I first fell in love when I picked up a Solleone Soprafino, the Tarocchino Lombardo, in the late eighties. Ever since, the historical Italian decks have been my favorite non-scenic pip decks for reading. Currently, the Ancient Italian Tarot is my historical deck of choice, but I'm thinking of spending more time with my Vacchettas.

Alan
Top   #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moderndayruth
Tarot of the Master (I Naibi di Giovanni Vachetta) is arriving next week from Rome! Yay!
Mine's on its way from Alida, and the Tarocco italiano Dotti 1845

Still trying to get hold of a Menenghello ATB - my bank wants 25 to send money direct to a foreign account (I think all British banks charge this "fee" for this service with personal accounts). The shop doesn't accept credit cards, and hasn't a paypal account. If I pay an additional 25 it brings the cost of the deck up beyond what I can possibly afford
Top   #223
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I've just spent some intensive time with this deck, and there are several really eccentric cards. I mean, *really* eccentric.

Il Bagatto is toasting us in a glass of red wine, and from the tools in front of us, he is a shoemaker.

Caval. di Spade is making eye-contact with us, and has cocked his head, as if we are speaking and he has to concentrate to hear us.

Il Tredici (the reaper) is scraping up gold and jewels with his scythe, not body-parts. He is leaving artistic tools behind.

Il Diavolo: the central humanoid figure is not the Devil. The Devil is one (or all) of the green things in the flames, dragging him down. That central figure is, in fact, Neptune, being pulled into the fire by the Devil.

L'Imperatore has received an Aussie Kiss (headbutt): his nose is bleeding copiously, his moustache is completely drenched in blood and his beard is not too far behind.

Il Monde is doing something unspeakable with the pink scarf, and what looks like a wisp of her hair blowing across her face, is on closer examination a bushy ginger moustache.

La Luna, the towers are far from matching, we can see the estuary spreading out into the sea, and the lobster is cooked and being served on a plate. Yum!

I've had this deck for ages. It really rewards you if you occasionally pull out a deck you "know well" and take a long, hard look at it close-up.
Top   #224
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Isn't it great?! I just love the changes that the Avondos did to make it their own unique dynamic.

Il Bagatto I believe is a Freemason. The wine, the shoemaker's tools and the apron are all suggestive of Masonic symbols. The mid-1800s saw a revival of Freemasonry in Italy by Giuseppe Garibaldi, and I believe the card is an homage to them. Perhaps the Avondos were Masons themselves. I love it for adding a sense of historical mysticism to the card. Now the Magician is as much a keeper of mysteries as the Papess, and displays their symbols obliquely in plain sight.

You've got an interesting take on Il Diavolo. It never occurred to me to think Ol' Stampy is really the green serpent demon and the figure is Neptune. That really makes the Devil scarier as an amorphous creature.

I love La Luna's lobster on a platter. It makes me think we really don't have to fear the baleful Moon too much because we're still in control and have cooked Pinchy for dinner.

About Il Monde, I don't believe that's a mustache but I consequence of too much paint applied to the engraving and smearing. They were aiming for her lips only, and turned her into...the Joker.

AIT is my favourite Marseille-style deck. I'm actually a person who prefers it to the more delicate and precisely decorated Soprafino. There's something about the rough lines and splotchy paint work that makes it more endearing. It's got a rugged, battered appeal that makes me feel less guilty about wearing it out as a workhorse deck. I feel obligated to be more gentle and respectful with the Soprafino that I don't use it as often.
Top   #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeric View Post
Isn't it great?! I just love the changes that the Avondos did to make it their own unique dynamic.
<grin>

Quote:
Il Bagatto I believe is a Freemason.
Well, he *could* be, but he reminds me so much of the folk tale of the Shoemaker and the Elves. I'd like him to be an old-fashioned crafter-of-shoes, so that he can be a Tarotic crafter-of-his-own-path, upon which shoes walk. And so that there can be elves hiding just out-of-frame.

Quote:
You've got an interesting take on Il Diavolo. It never occurred to me to think Ol' Stampy is really the green serpent demon and the figure is Neptune. That really makes the Devil scarier as an amorphous creature.
It never occurred to me until a few days ago. Neptune is a Water-spirit: to water-spirits, Fire must be even scarier and more painful than it is to us humans. If there is a "Devil" at all in that card, it'll be the green-faced manthing in the lower-right, accompanied by the serpent.

Quote:
About Il Monde, I don't believe that's a mustache but I consequence of too much paint applied to the engraving and smearing. They were aiming for her lips only, and turned her into...the Joker.
One could say the same thing about the Emperor's bloody nose. And I like the idea of the World-dancer as a moustachioed drag-queen. Possibly it's not what was intended by an artist who is not a part of my relationship with the deck, it's about how the viewer (in this case, that's me) responds to this deck. An error-of-paint such as might be blamed for the moustache or the bloody beard might be just poor artistic control - but if it makes the card more interesting? What then?

Quote:
AIT is my favourite Marseille-style deck. I'm actually a person who prefers it to the more delicate and precisely decorated Soprafino. There's something about the rough lines and splotchy paint work that makes it more endearing. It's got a rugged, battered appeal that makes me feel less guilty about wearing it out as a workhorse deck. I feel obligated to be more gentle and respectful with the Soprafino that I don't use it as often.
Also, the Soprafino, at least mine, isn't laminated, so it's harder to shuffle and needs *much* gentler handling. Which I'm happy to give it - but the AIT is indeed a workhorse deck, and appeals to a lot of clients.
Top   #226
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Very interesting idea about the trident-wielding character on the Il Diavolo card actually being Neptune! I'd always found it curious that this card was so different to the other Devil cards, without the 'man and woman in shackles' imagery, and how the 'Devil' (now possibly Neptune following this new idea) looked as though he was losing his 'control', either waving his fist in rage or losing his stability with a slightly nervous look on his face. If he's associated with water, though, wouldn't that in fact put out and dampen the flames the closer he gets dragged into the fire?

As for the Soprafino, I don't own that one, but from the images I've seen online I like the finer details etc. However, like Aeric I still prefer the Ancient Italian, which is my main deck. The court cards also appear rather different, with the Kings in the AI being very different facially, with beards etc.
Top   #227
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Another thing possibly unique to this style - La Giustizia (Justice) - Has her eyes closed, perhaps to suggest 'blind justice', but looking closely there's also an open eye at the top of her chest.
Top   #228
Philistine  Philistine is offline
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This is my daily driver for historical pip decks. It's just fabulous in all of its eccentricity and coloration-gone-mad. The court cards are so human, elegant, and relaxed, and project so much believable eye contact. Their fanciful costumes often inspire me to think, "you know, I'd love to make that for Halloween."

Other interesting cards are the Il Sole, which depicts a young couple engaged in (what I imagine to be) an Italian folk dance and reminiscent of more of a Lovers card. The creature on La Ruota--is that a fox or something like it? The flaming urn on the crank post . . . does it imply a power source for the wheel, or what is it? Not the usual circle of "I will rule, I rule, I once ruled", or certainly it is not narrated in the usual fashion.

Such an endearing deck. The shabby coloring really does give it a European gypsy vibe. The cardstock is supreme, too, and I'm usually only this in love with cardstock that is linen finish. This was the deck that got me through my grandmother's passing. It's on my coffee table right now!
Top   #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philistine View Post
This is my daily driver for historical pip decks. It's just fabulous in all of its eccentricity and coloration-gone-mad. The court cards are so human, elegant, and relaxed, and project so much believable eye contact. Their fanciful costumes often inspire me to think, "you know, I'd love to make that for Halloween."

Other interesting cards are the Il Sole, which depicts a young couple engaged in (what I imagine to be) an Italian folk dance and reminiscent of more of a Lovers card. The creature on La Ruota--is that a fox or something like it? The flaming urn on the crank post . . . does it imply a power source for the wheel, or what is it? Not the usual circle of "I will rule, I rule, I once ruled", or certainly it is not narrated in the usual fashion.

Such an endearing deck. The shabby coloring really does give it a European gypsy vibe. The cardstock is supreme, too, and I'm usually only this in love with cardstock that is linen finish. This was the deck that got me through my grandmother's passing. It's on my coffee table right now!
Great post, and nice to know it's the deck that helped give you comfort and inspiration when getting through a bad time.

Intrigued by the flaming urn, I had a dig around online and this could represent the flaming censer (container used for burning incense in religious ceremonies) of Revelation 8:4-5, where an angel fills a censer with altar fire before throwing it down upon the earth. It appears that this was introduced to the Wheek of Fortune specifically in these 18th century Italian tarot designs.
http://paranormal.wikia.com/Wheel_of_Fortune
http://www.amen67.com/censer.htm
Top   #230

 





 


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