Golden Dawn vs. Thelema

ravenest

Its a large topic you started and the above posts really only scratch the surface.

There is a LOT more .... but that might require more specific questions.
 

foolMoon

Its a large topic you started and the above posts really only scratch the surface.

There is a LOT more .... but that might require more specific questions.

Great stuff. Thank you. So this is my understanding from the threads so far,

1. GD is a secret order. It is neither Philosophical system, nor Religion. It is a membership organisation which involves initiations, gradings and rituals. It studies and practices various occult knowledge to widen spiritual enlightenment.

2. Thelema is a philosophical / religious system, world view and religion created by AC. Whereas GD rituals are largely based on Christian philosophy and Rosicrucianism, Thelema is a belief system somewhat rather resembles buddhism in respect to it does not support sacrifices or sufferings for proper way in reaching glorification or nirvana. Thelema studies, and uses rituals in their system, also meditation, yoga and tarot divination in their practices.

AC used to be a GD member at one point, but after bitter fall out with GD, he went his own way, and created his own initiatory order called OTO, which practices Thelema beliefs and rituals, and the Crowley Thoth Tarot deck co-worked with Lady F. Harris, and rest is history.

Please confirm if I am following OK, or if there is any points to be corrected. Thanks. :)
 

Aeon418

1. GD is a secret order. It is neither Philosophical system, nor Religion. It is a membership organisation which involves initiations, gradings and rituals. It studies and practices various occult knowledge to widen spiritual enlightenment.
The Golden Dawn was a secret order. But it no longer exists in the sense of it being a specific order. There are a number of modern day spin-off groups claiming descent from the original Golden Dawn, but these aren't exactly secret.
Thelema also studies, and uses rituals in their system also meditation, yoga and tarot divination in their practices.
Hmmm.... I think you may still be confusing Thelema itself with initiatory orders. There is no requirement within Thelema for anyone to practice Ceremonial Magick, Yoga, Tarot, or anything like that. But any or all of these can be practised within a Thelemic context.
AC used to be a GD member at one point, but after bitter fall out with GD, he went his own way, and created his own initiatory order called OTO, which practices Thelema beliefs and rituals, the Crowley Thoth Tarot deck co-worked with Lady F. Harris, and rest is history.
No. After Crowley left the Golden Dawn he and another ex-Golden Dawn initiate, George Cecil Jones, developed an order called the A.'.A.'.. Although there are many important differences, this order shares a similar grade structure and nomenclature with the Golden Dawn.

The O.T.O. on the other hand already existed before Crowley took it over and blended it with Thelema. It is a quasi-masonic order and is somewhat different to the Golden Dawn.
 

foolMoon

The Golden Dawn was a secret order. But it no longer exists in the sense of it being a specific order. There are a number of modern day spin-off groups claiming descent from the original Golden Dawn, but these aren't exactly secret.

So, there is no longer true GD as such right now? I have ordered a book for GD called "The Essence of GD" by Cicero. It looks like an easy read.

Hmmm.... I think you may still be confusing Thelema itself with initiatory orders. There is no requirement within Thelema for anyone to practice Ceremonial Magick, Yoga, Tarot, or anything like that. But any or all of these can be practised within a Thelemic context.

Yup. That's what I meant. But habitually spoken as if Thelema was some body or order. It will take a while for me to get used to new concept :)


No. After Crowley left the Golden Dawn he and another ex-Golden Dawn initiate, George Cecil Jones, developed an order called the A.'.A.'.. Although there are many important differences, this order shares a similar grade structure and nomenclature with the Golden Dawn.

The O.T.O. on the other hand already existed before Crowley took it over and blended it with Thelema. It is a quasi-masonic order and is somewhat different to the Golden Dawn.

This is new for me about A.'.A. I heard about it, but was not aware of the fact that it was created earlier than OTO. I would like to learn about all the differences and similarities of these orders. Fascinating facts indeed. Thanks for your clarification. :)
 

Aeon418

So, there is no longer true GD as such right now?
Currently there are various groups that claim to be the true Golden Dawn. But even the best of these are based on connections to ex-Golden Dawn members who set up their own splinter groups after the original Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn collapsed.

Take for example the Cicero's, who are presently very popular Golden Dawn authors. Their claim of G.D. lineage comes directly from Israel Regardie. But Regardie was never a member of the Golden Dawn. He was a member of a splinter group called the Stella Matutina that based it's rituals and teachings on the Golden Dawn.

I have ordered a book for GD called "The Essence of GD" by Cicero. It looks like an easy read.
Do you mean The Essential Golden Dawn? It's a good intro and provides a lot of background info. It will probably answer a lot of your questions.
This is new for me about A.'.A. I heard about it, but was not aware of the fact that it was created earlier than OTO.
The O.T.O. pre-dates the A.'.A.'..

Crowley and Jones created the A.'.A.'. between 1906 - 1909. The O.T.O. already existed at this time and had been established years earlier by Karl Kellner and Theodore Reuss. Crowley did not create the O.T.O.. He joined it in 1910(?) when it was still a non-Thelemic, masonic style order. He took over the headship of the order several years later and re-wrote the initiation rituals to reflect the Thelemic philosophy.
In the O.T.O. Crowley saw the potential for a popular movement that would have broad appeal and help promote Thelema to the masses.

After Crowley's death the continued existence of both the O.T.O. and A.'.A.'. became a bit murky. This was largely due to the mis-management of Crowley's successor, Karl Germer.
The O.T.O. question was settled in the courts in the 1980's. (Some people still contest the outcome of that case.) While A.'.A.'. has since splintered into various factions and lineages. Some are valid, while others are spurious. But without exception all of them have breaks or irregularities of one kind or another.
 

ravenest

For me there are several expressions of Themela one can investigate.

The primal source of course is The Book of the Law. I suppose if one accepts that book, that is the definition 'of being' a Thelemite. Here I am a bit unclear ( and maybe that was the intention?) There is no swearing in, baptism (see below) , registration , central organizational body (although some have tried to claim it so) etc, that covers Themela overall as a religion. The BoL makes some 'religious' claims, and if one accepted all of them, I suppose one's religion would be 'Thelemite'.

Then again some people find affinity with the core principle; they agree with 'Do what thou wilt' and hence feel they are a Thelemite (although their understanding of the core principle may be very different from what Crowley taught and expanded on).

There is the A.A and the OTO - outlined above.

There is the 'liturgical expression' of Thelema in the EGC ( Gnostic Church) - which is overtly religious in Character. It has been designed from a Thelemic perspective and one can gain great insight into aspects of Thelema from studying the ritual , its a little difficult without insight, but a good anoted form with explanations will help. I recommend the 'Invisible Basilica' ; (all the way through the text are highlighted connected links to explanations and notes)

http://hermetic.com/sabazius/gnostic_mass.htm

Then, although not specifically Thelemic, but an insight into a main form of magical technology that Crowley, O.T.O. , A.A. , Masonry, Initiatory Orders, etc, used; dramatic ritual, is available in the The Rights of Eleusis ... obscure in parts for the beginner, but an amazing experience if you ever get a group performance together.

The way I see it then, with these expressions of Thelema, they are all different 'rays' suited to different purposes:

~ The Book, general (as Aeon said above " There is no requirement within Thelema for anyone to practice Ceremonial Magick, Yoga, Tarot, or anything like that". Although there are some rituals described in the BoL eg. I:61 ).

~ The AA - an initiatory system geared to individual advancement and attainment based on a Tree of Life system. It is fairly 'closed' and works on a 1 to 1 teaching relationship.

~ The OTO - an initiatory fraternity and a 'sociological magical experiment' based on a series of mystical Masonic type initiations and the Chakra system (supposedly).

~ The EGC - for people that want a liturgical expression of Thelema; with Mass and sacraments ( Baptism, , conformation, marriage, Eucharist, last rites, etc. ... no 'confession' though ;) ) One could say the religion exists for general members of the 'Thelemic Community' , all the mysteries held in the OTO degrees are displayed in symbol and analogy in this rite, so they open to non-initiates - if they can discern them. The initiatory orders then would be like the Orders in the Christian churches - where people devote themselves specifically to advancement by practising the rituals and following the outlined curriculum - a bit like an Order of monks as opposed to a congregation.

~ The Rites of Eleusis are for the general community, they contain the mysteries in another form and are displayed for all who partake. They also fulfil a social function, much like the Bacchanalia - or modern day Mardi Gras - a social pressure release valve.

Sometimes people complain that the western mysteries and the occult knowledge are shut up in initiatory orders and you cant find out what they are unless you can get in.

I think they haven't been paying attention to the range on offer (that and wanting the knowledge delivered 'pre-cooked' and ready to digest .... nah! Part of the formula is putting your own effort in ) . The material is there. But it is you that has to fit it together to draw the sustenance you particularly need from it.
 

Barleywine

Anyone care to comment on where Jim Eshelman's College and Temple of Thelema fit into the picture? It seems he has done us all a service by making Liber Theta freely available for download (although it looks like he put his personal stamp on it somewhat).
 

Aeon418

Anyone care to comment on where Jim Eshelman's College and Temple of Thelema fit into the picture?
The College of Thelema was set up in the 1970's by Phyllis Seckler. She was the wife of Grady McMurtry (aka Hymenaeus Alpha) and one time A.'.A.'. pupil of Jane Wolfe. It was meant to provide foundational courses in Magick, Thelema, and Psychology and help prepare students to undertake the work of A.'.A.'..

The Temple of Thelema is Jim Eshelman's Thelemic re-working of the old Golden Dawn outer order initiations and knowledge lecture scheme. Like the College of Thelema courses it was originally set up to prepare students for the work of A.'.A.'., but I believe it has been expanded into a full blown initiatory order in it's own right.

The Seckler lineage of A.'.A.'. uses either the College or the Temple in place of the original Student grade set up by Crowley. This seems to annoy the A.'.A.'. lineage headed by Gunther which is fronted by the O.T.O. and Hymenaeus Beta. But they dispute the very notion of lineage anyway and claim to be the only true A.'.A.'.. That split copyright between O.T.O. and A.'.A.'. is a real kicker for them. ;)
 

Abrac

foolMoon, the outward forms of the GD and Thelema are different but the ideals of both are the same when you peel back the layers. The further you get into it - the further you get into virtually any occult school or society really - the thing they all talk about is the "Light." Sometimes you have to listen carefully because it's expressed in many different ways, but it refers to "seeing in the dark," for lack of a better metaphor. The very word "occult" mean hidden and the "Light" shows the way.
 

foolMoon

Currently there are various groups that claim to be the true Golden Dawn. But even the best of these are based on connections to ex-Golden Dawn members who set up their own splinter groups after the original Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn collapsed.

Take for example the Cicero's, who are presently very popular Golden Dawn authors. Their claim of G.D. lineage comes directly from Israel Regardie. But Regardie was never a member of the Golden Dawn. He was a member of a splinter group called the Stella Matutina that based it's rituals and teachings on the Golden Dawn.

But Regardie was a secretary of Crowley? I was under impression Regardie has strong connection to GD (high rank in it), as he had written so much about it.


Do you mean The Essential Golden Dawn? It's a good intro and provides a lot of background info. It will probably answer a lot of your questions.

Yes, it is. Thanks for your correction on the title of the book. It arrived yesterday, and I read first 40 pages. It is a good read. It was going through all the philosophies and religions from the very ancient to right before the birth of GD. Now I am about to start on the chapter called "Brief History of GD".

The O.T.O. pre-dates the A.'.A.'..

Crowley and Jones created the A.'.A.'. between 1906 - 1909. The O.T.O. already existed at this time and had been established years earlier by Karl Kellner and Theodore Reuss. Crowley did not create the O.T.O.. He joined it in 1910(?) when it was still a non-Thelemic, masonic style order. He took over the headship of the order several years later and re-wrote the initiation rituals to reflect the Thelemic philosophy.
In the O.T.O. Crowley saw the potential for a popular movement that would have broad appeal and help promote Thelema to the masses.

After Crowley's death the continued existence of both the O.T.O. and A.'.A.'. became a bit murky. This was largely due to the mis-management of Crowley's successor, Karl Germer.
The O.T.O. question was settled in the courts in the 1980's. (Some people still contest the outcome of that case.) While A.'.A.'. has since splintered into various factions and lineages. Some are valid, while others are spurious. But without exception all of them have breaks or irregularities of one kind or another.

Again thanks for your clarification. I heard about the Reuss, who came to see Crowley one day with anger to question about some OTO secret revealed to public by Crowley. Not sure if I am correct here again, but whenever clarified in this forum, it gets clearer. :)