Have the planets lined-up yet re: Mayan Calendar?

Let me begin by indicating that i don't know much about the mayan calendar. However, i read that according to it the planets are supposed to line-up, and altho i'm not sure, for some reason i thot this was supposed to occur on Dec. 21st., 2012.

Can anyone tell me, if this is correct? OR did the planets line-up awhile ago?

Also note: i don't know anything about astrology, but for those of you who do, can you confirm that there are 8 Planets?

Further to which, i've read that Pluto isn't considered to be a planet. & For some reason, neither the Moon, nor the Sun are regarded as such.

Whatever, do any of you subscribe to the theory that there are only 5 Planets, which (somehow?/pardon my ignorance) correspond to: the 5 elements, in the sense that some people regard ether as an element.

Or rather should I say, i've noted that some members here @ AT consider Ether to be the 5th. esoteric element, and otherwise representative of: "spirit".

Also for those of you who read tarot by incorporating astrological correspondences, does anyone know whether The Wheel should be viewed in relation to the planet Jupiter? & IF so, does Jupiter correspond to the element of: fire OR ether?

Any help would be much appreciated because I did a 2012 Prediction reading which I posted in the your readings forum, but i'm struggling to interpret it, and it certainly would help if I had a better take on The Wheel re: elemental correspondence.

REGARDS/jenessa

No, the planets didn't line up and I can't see them doing so in the near future. LOL The end of world is postponed for now. As about the number of planets, I consider them all. Traditional astrologers take into account the Sun, the Moon, and the five closer to them planets, which makes seven bodies to work with. Technically the Sun is not a planet, it's a star. The Moon is not a planet either, so... nothing that we don't know.

I've never incorporated any other methods in my readings. When I do Tarot, it's Tarot. When I do Lenormand, it's Lenormand. When I do astrology, it's astrology. And it works well for me tat way. I think all these have enough meanings and correspondences already injected in them to add more, IMHO.

jenessa said:

Let me begin by indicating that i don't know much about the mayan calendar. However, i read that according to it the planets are supposed to line-up, and altho i'm not sure, for some reason i thot this was supposed to occur on Dec. 21st., 2012.

Can anyone tell me, if this is correct? OR did the planets line-up awhile ago?

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I'm not an expert in the Mayan calendar but I know a man who is

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way...the-end-of-times-is-our-idea-not-the-ancients

Professor David Stuart points out that there's no end of the world prophecy, it's simply the end of the Mayan calendar (with the Winter Solstice, not any planetary alignment). By the look of it, even that is not absolutely clear but Stuart says the Mayans would simply celebrate the fact and look forward to the whole series starting again - a bit like a car whose odometer trips over and begins again.

The 'planetary alignment' that recently occurred has nothing to do with the Mayan calendar, and was a triple conjunction of Mercury, Venus and Saturn in Scorpio. This was by no means as rare as the doomsday stories at the time made out. Yet more New Age nonsense LOL

jenessa said:

Also note: i don't know anything about astrology, but for those of you who do, can you confirm that there are 8 Planets?

Further to which, i've read that Pluto isn't considered to be a planet. & For some reason, neither the Moon, nor the Sun are regarded as such.

Whatever, do any of you subscribe to the theory that there are only 5 Planets, which (somehow?/pardon my ignorance) correspond to: the 5 elements, in the sense that some people regard ether as an element.

Or rather should I say, i've noted that some members here @ AT consider Ether to be the 5th. esoteric element, and otherwise representative of: "spirit".

Click to expand...

It depends what you mean by 'planet'

The original Greek word was 'planetes, meaning 'wanderer' that is a star that moves. Again the Greeks did not distinguish between stars and planets as we do, they distinguished between wandering bodies, and 'fixed' bodies.

Their definitions and those of other societies gave seven wandering bodies, Saturn, Jupiter, Mars, Sun, Venus, Mercury and Moon. These seven are all visible bodies as the Greeks did not have effective telescopes. On this definition Pluto would probably be a planet, as would Neptune, Chiron, etc because they do move. As they move very slowly it might well be a debatable definition LOL.

Modern definitions of what a planet is are fixed by the Astronomical Union and it is they who decided to downgrade Pluto to the status of a Dwarf planet. Whether the decisions of the AU should have influence in Astrology is again debatable, I don't think they should. However it was the rush to label Pluto a planet by Astronomers that resulted in it being used by Astrologers. Ceres discovered in 1801 was labelled an Asteroid and never given planetary status and therefore was hardly used by Astrologers until the twentieth century. Astronomers actually got Pluto wrong, they greatly overestimated it's size and the rash of similar bodies discovered since has forced them to reconsider.

For Astrology I keep to the seven classical planets, as the language of Astrology is one of light.

janessa said:

Also for those of you who read tarot by incorporating astrological correspondences, does anyone know whether The Wheel should be viewed in relation to the planet Jupiter? & IF so, does Jupiter correspond to the element of: fire OR ether?

Any help would be much appreciated because I did a 2012 Prediction reading which I posted in the your readings forum, but i'm struggling to interpret it, and it certainly would help if I had a better take on The Wheel re: elemental correspondence.

REGARDS/jenessa

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I am very wary of Astrological correspondences in Tarot. Yes cards can 'remind' you of certain Astrological symbols or Astrological symbols remind you of cards. And yest this might be illuminating as you look at a card in a new light or see something that you've not seen before.

However a slavish identification is to be avoided. There is no set of accepted correspondences, nor should there be. Astrologically, Jupiter is a hot and moist planet, not a firey one, though it rules a Fire sign (and also a Water sign). There is little use of 'ether' is Astrology, certainly compared to Fire, Earth, Air and Water it's miniscule. as ether is the space between planets and stars.

I'd say for Tarot reading go with your feelings about the card but be prepared to change in the light of your experience and your own development. And as Ronia says, go with the cards and push the Astrology into the background.

Minderwiz said:

I'm not an expert in the Mayan calendar but I know a man who is http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way...the-end-of-times-is-our-idea-not-the-ancients

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Thank you for the link i will check it out when i have time.

The 'planetary alignment' that recently occurred has nothing to do with the Mayan calendar, and was a triple conjunction of Mercury, Venus and Saturn in Scorpio.

Click to expand...

Again, thank you for this explanation re: Mayan calendar. Tho just so you know, i have no idea what a planetary alignment is? But then again, i'm not a student of astrology and i doubt i ever will be due to time constraints .. tho never say never,, perhaps i'll find the time to delve into this in my old age/LOL

The original Greek word was 'planetes, meaning 'wanderer' that is a star that moves. Again the Greeks did not distinguish between stars and planets as we do, they distinguished between wandering bodies, and 'fixed' bodies.

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Oooh .. i like that!

Their definitions and those of other societies gave seven wandering bodies, Saturn, Jupiter, Mars, Sun, Venus, Mercury and Moon. For Astrology I keep to the seven classical planets, as the language of Astrology is one of light.

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I like this too, cuz i keep thinking the sun & moon are part of the big picture.

I am very wary of Astrological correspondences in Tarot.

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Me too, mostly cuz i know nothing about astrology.

For some reason the net timed-out so i lost some of what i was attempting to quote from your post. Tho on the topic of incorporating astrological correspondences into tarot, please note: that I saw a "list" of astrological correspondences or rather should I say, planets that were attributed to the major arcana, as well as elements that were attributed to each major. So i'm thinking that the elemental attributions for the Majors, are somehow connected to the planets? Do you know if this is true?

You also mentioned that: Astrologically, Jupiter is a hot and moist planet, not a firey one, though it rules a Fire sign (and also a Water sign). Hmmn, don't know what to think, except that according to my list/chart Jupiter is the planet associated with the Wheel of Fortune, and The Wheel is elementally thot to represent Fire. Tho i did read contadictory info., insofar as i read that Jupiter is associated with Ether? But then again, there is so much disinformation floating around on the web.

You mentioned that: there is little use of 'ether' is Astrology, certainly compared to Fire, Earth, Air and Water it's miniscule.
^^ I'll take your word for it/LOL .. however, do you think that 'ether' has a use in: "tarot"?

many/many thanks & Happy Holidays to you & yours

I am not Minderwiz but I've been a card reader since I was a child, so: there are no confirmed lists of astrological correspondences from the past. I will consider such a list by Rider-Waite, for example, if you work with Rider-Waite style tarot. There are tons of lists of correspondences to not only planets but herbs, flowers, days, and I don't know what else made by people who at one point felt they needed to make them but these are *their* lists and *their* correspondences. I've read Rider-Waite's notes on Tarot and since I'm using his style of deck, I don't add any planets to the cards. However, I do trust my own feeling when I see a card and when I've asked a time question. And only my feeling. It Cups feel early autumn to me, then it's early autumn and that's all that matters.

P.S. I'm not discussing here Thoth or all newer kinds of Tarot, just Rider-Waite as a classical example.

jenessa said:

T
Again, thank you for this explanation re: Mayan calendar. Tho just so you know, i have no idea what a planetary alignment is? But then again, i'm not a student of astrology and i doubt i ever will be due to time constraints .. tho never say never,, perhaps i'll find the time to delve into this in my old age/LOL

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A planetary alignment in it's most simple form is two or more planets close together in the sky (a conjunction). The recent triple conjunction of Saturn, Venus and Mercury meant that if you were up just before dawn you would see the three of them very close together ( though more in an arc than a line). Such alignments are taken as meaningful

janessa said:

Tho on the topic of incorporating astrological correspondences into tarot, please note: that I saw a "list" of astrological correspondences or rather should I say, planets that were attributed to the major arcana, as well as elements that were attributed to each major. So i'm thinking that the elemental attributions for the Majors, are somehow connected to the planets? Do you know if this is true?

Click to expand...

As Ronia says above such lists are 'personal' and thus subjective' The Rider Waite associations are the ones most used but that doesn't make them objectively right. And I agree with Ronia, what really matters is their meaning to you.

Indeed you don't have to have any Astrological correspondences at all, and when I read Tarot I didn't particularly use them. I don't know if there are an extant sixteenth century 'Teach Yourself Tarot' manuals but I doubt they would contain much in the way of such correspondences if you found one. The revival of interest in Astrology at the end of the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries led to an increase in interest by groups such as Golden Dawn, of which A. E Waite was a member. However Astrology was not their main concern and the Waite deck is not really an Astrological one - the correspondences were added later by others. Quite a few deck designers since then have built in such correspondences based on their own views. But I know plenty of Tarot readers who pay little attention to the intentions of the deck designer and work off their own intuition. And it seems that is the best approach.

Indeed I don't see much point in using such correspondencs at all unless you have a reasonable knowledge of both Tarot and Astrology, as the correspondences will be taken as 'facts' but will do little or nothing to improve your reading.

janessa said:

You also mentioned that: Astrologically, Jupiter is a hot and moist planet, not a firey one, though it rules a Fire sign (and also a Water sign). Hmmn, don't know what to think, except that according to my list/chart Jupiter is the planet associated with the Wheel of Fortune, and The Wheel is elementally thot to represent Fire. Tho i did read contadictory info., insofar as i read that Jupiter is associated with Ether? But then again, there is so much disinformation floating around on the web.

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In Astrology Jupiter was seen as a Hot and Moist planet - or to use the old terminology it was Sanguine. The modern counterpart would be that it is Airy. This is an example of where the various ways of looking at a planet in Astrology can lead to confusion if you start to export some of it to Tarot. Jupiter is also the ruler of the Fire Triplicity (Aries, Leo, Sagittarius) by Night, so it does have some connection with Fire. But the intrinsic nature of a planet is not necessarily identical to the triplicity it rules. Mars, which is Very Hot and Dry rules Aries but Mars is not used as a Triplicity (element) ruler for Fire as a whole.

That might seem confusing and indeed it is on first sight but Mars is seen to function better in Scorpio, where the water cools its heat.

janessa said:

You mentioned that: there is little use of 'ether' is Astrology, certainly compared to Fire, Earth, Air and Water it's miniscule.
^^ I'll take your word for it/LOL .. however, do you think that 'ether' has a use in: "tarot"?

many/many thanks & Happy Holidays to you & yours

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I never used it when I read Tarot but that is not to say that you shouldn't use it. It comes down to your own approach and whether you find it useful. Tarot is far more subjective than Astrology.

Happy Christmas too

Ronia said:

I I've been a card reader since I was a child, so: there are no confirmed lists of astrological correspondences from the past. I will consider such a list by Rider-Waite, for example, if you work with Rider-Waite style tarot. There are tons of lists of correspondences to not only planets but herbs, flowers, days, and I don't know what else made by people who at one point felt they needed to make them but these are *their* lists and *their* correspondences. I've read Rider-Waite's notes on Tarot and since I'm using his style of deck, I don't add any planets to the cards. However, I do trust my own feeling when I see a card and when I've asked a time question. And only my feeling. It Cups feel early autumn to me, then it's early autumn and that's all that matters.

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I totally agree with everything you say here. Tarot is subjective and intuitive. The reader is interpreting pictures that stimulate connections, ideas and intuitive grasp. It's a very different way of divining than Astrology, which is more structured and has more agreed rules. I have never thought that imposing Astrological concepts on Tarot cards was a good idea, though where the similarity in meaning is close a knowledge of one might stimulate some new perspectives in the other.

Minderwiz & Ronia, thank you both very/very much .. you have given me plenty to ponder, and i'll just leave it @ that cuz my head is swimming/LOL

I agree with you that tarot is both subjective & intuitive re: forming a connection with the cards. Indeed, i tend to put my own spin on various reading methods, cuz for me its all about trial & error .. so i tend to take what i can USE, and discard the rest.

& Just so you know: i'm trying to learn to read according to dignity, in the sense that i'm hoping to be able to use elemental interactions to determine the "dominant energy" of a throw. So for me, ed's are NOT gonna be about whether to read the positive or negative aspect of a card, given that i read with reversals to ascertain a cards meaning, but rather for me its more about whether a card's "energy" would be enhanced or diminished.

Each to their own .. whatever works! & For me, tarot is working when there is a clear message in the cards &/or when the cards reveal things which come to pass.

REGARDS/jenessa

Here is a link about where the planets are right now with links to places where you can see what the planets are doing at any given time.

Will the solar system planets align on December 21, 2012?