Study Group Post 1- Houses (general information)

TarotGirlUK

4th –Cancer
House of Home and Family, Father
Ancestry, heritage, roots. Early foundation and environment. The caretaker of the household. Now there is controversy about which parent this house relates to, I found most often its written as father

10th- Capricorn
House of Social Status & Mother
Ambitions. Motivations. Career. Status in society. Government. Authority. Father or father figure. The breadwinner of the household. One's public appearance/impression at large(audience).Boundaries, restrictions

These two houses seem to be both dominant in male/fatherly energy. It this list from the times when women had to have the tea on the table when he got home?

So I would personally relate father to 4th on numerology basis and 10th to the Mother.... no actually I wouldn't. They both are too male dominant!


***edit, perhaps since we're modern now, they can relate both to Mother and Father?
 

Minderwiz

TarotGirlUK said:
So I would personally relate father to 4th on numerology basis and 10th to the Mother.... no actually I wouldn't. They both are too male dominant!


***edit, perhaps since we're modern now, they can relate both to Mother and Father?

Some good research there. You're quite right, there's a presumption that in a patriarchal family the man is the breadwinner.

There's another Astrological practice that needs to be made explicit here, just to make sure everyone is aware of it. The seventh house, which featured earlier on in the thread, is the House of partnerships and marriage. It lies opposite to the first house. It's the house of the other person, in any issue, be it a law suit, a business partnership, any named person (according to Frawley) and your spouse.

This idea of a person's partner or spouse being symbolised by the opposite house is regularly used in Astrology. So Your husband or wife is the seventh house, and, if your father is fourth house, then his spouse (your mother) is tenth house. The house is playing a completely different role in your life here - it's not being the house of career or the government, and those uses of the tenth should be ignored or better still put aside.

Now this is only done if you need to distinguish between your parents. Your parents together are fourth house. If you need specifically to separate out your mother for some reason, then you would use the tenth house, as she is your father's wife.

In a matriarchal society the fourth would be the mother, and the father would take the tenth, if you needed to consider him separately. Together they would still be covered by the fourth house.
 

olivia1

Kilted Kat said:


Minderwiz said:
Well Venus is a real possibility - Venus is a feminine planet, and also a highly fertile planet.

Any other suggestions ?

I agree with Kilted Kat. The book I'm reading called Horary Astrology Plain and Simple says that Venus (among other things) represents the mother.
 

dimwem

As I've mentioned before, I'm new so correct me when I'm blatantly retarded.

But I've always seen Venus as a representation of sensuality and lovers. My mother is my father's lover, so I wouldn't want to see my mother represented by Venus in MY chart.
 

dadsnook2000

My two cents regarding a minor point

Minderwiz, I'd tend to see a small portion of your remarks about the first house as not quite right, if there is such a thing as "right." Regarding the comment on how psychologically oriented astrologers might see the first house wherein you noted that it shows how the world sees you . . .

I'd see, in that general line of thought, that the first house would represent one's attitudes and view of one's living space. The seventh house would be where we project ourselves out to the world, psychologically, and how we want others to see us and to meet our expectations. Of course, "expectations" are the curse of mankind and the source of many of our disappointments.

So, my keywords from a psychological standpoint would include personality, attitude, our direct experience and involvement with life, the physical self and its sense of ease-unease, our focus on our activities. Dave
 

olivia1

dimwem said:
As I've mentioned before, I'm new so correct me when I'm blatantly retarded.

But I've always seen Venus as a representation of sensuality and lovers. My mother is my father's lover, so I wouldn't want to see my mother represented by Venus in MY chart.

Aww, don't say that about yourself. We are all learning, too :) Venus represents more than one thing. Venus also represents love and *pleasures. According to Anthony Louis, Venus even represents money, art, ect. Everyone, please correct me if I'm wrong. I don't know much myself and I am only going by what I have read in books and online.

* not to be confused with just plain sex which (according to Horary Astrology Plain & Simple) is represented by Mars.
 

Minderwiz

That's a good summary Olivia. There's no hard and fast rule here. The Moon and Venus are both feminine planets and therefore could be used for any woman. Most Astrologers, past and present, would take the Moon as the archetypal woman, if women in general are being considered. If we need to be more specific, then the Moon is, generally speaking, used for older women and Venus for younger women. As your mother is by definition an older woman, it's more usual to choose the Moon, as her significator. Venus might be used for a wife (even if she's the older partner) or a sister, or friend, or even yourself (assuming you are female).

However, I repeat, it's not hard and fast and there may be reasons why Venus or the Moon is preferred because of the specific, situation or circumstances that you are concerned with.

As you study more, you will come across more things that are associated with Venus but Olivia has given a good starter set there. Since Freud. psychologists and psychiatrists tend to see sex as something hidden or repressed or even not quite normal and certainly not nice and enjoyable. That probably accounts for the Venus/Mars distinction that Olivia makes. Howver don't forget that venereal diseases are literally diseases of Venus. So Venus is not nescessarily romantic and proper, she can be quite lusty when she wants. It's better to see Venus as female sexuality and Mars asn male sexuality and remember that both are nescessary.

Again circumstances will govern your choice of Mars or Venus, if you have to choose one and Olivia's distinction is probably the mainstream view in our culture but be aware that any simplification or rule of thumb is simply that.
 

firecatpickles

214red said:
i think i would have to disagree, i had a taurus mother and she is lovely, but there is also the selfish part of venus, what if she had a child prettier then her?
LOL

My mom is a Cancer and is the least maternal mother on the face of the planet! She is very self-involved and Venus-like.

It is interesting to see how our personal experiences can pepper our interpretations.
 

Minderwiz

Yes that's true Kat.

But remember two things:

Firstly Astrological symbolism is set at a general level, at a more specific level things may vary. Thus Mum's in general can well be symbolised by the Moon, but your Mum in particular might be better symbolised by Venus. Learning the descriptions of both and applying them to people can help you develop your understanding.

Secondly, ANY application of one planetary symbol to a person is a generalisation. It can be very helpful and it can convey quite a bit of information in one word BUT it only gives information about one dimension of that person. So your Mum may well be Cancer Sun, but you can see that that is not a good description. Looking at her chart can help you try and determine why she seems to be more Venus, or indeed reveal other sides to her. That's the joy of developing your Astrological knowledge. It also explains in part why Dave and I are continually downplaying Sun signs - they are given far too much weight and ignore all those other planets and houses.
 

AmethystEyes

Kilted Kat said:
LOL

My mom is a Cancer and is the least maternal mother on the face of the planet! She is very self-involved and Venus-like.

It is interesting to see how our personal experiences can pepper our interpretations.
Oh yes, I can agree here, my mother is Cancer and they say that they are natural mothers. HA!! OK she wasn't horrible, but I really can't say I want to be like her when I have children, she has taught me what not to do more than what to do. Yes Minderwiz, I have wondered if her other signs could be altering her Cancer to make her the way she is. She doesn't know the time she was born so I can't get her Ascendant. I would have to look up her chart again to see the others.