Marseilles Seekers Thread (Second Exercise)

indianstorm said:

Firstly- EE-- some of what you've written makes perfect sense even to non cartomantic crowds. People look for meanings in symbolism from almost everything. I do believe , or at aleast one my theories of the tarot, are they function as cues. A deceptive cue--because while you are searching for what the card means- you end up uncovering various other prompts which lead to solution/s. Maybe- the TdM served as a media for lateral thinking back in the old day-?? just something I pondered on-

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I tend to agree with what you are saying, which in practice can be seen as very close to the idea of lectio divina (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lectio_Divina). My only comment would be that I won’t bet this was the original intention of those who created the cards. It is just that the cards can be seen as meditation tools, and such meditation, in the absence of a religious intent, will lead to transversal thinking.

Great comment!

indianstorm said:

What did you notice?
Firstly-- I seem to be attracting cups left, right and centre lately- In the camoin deck- the cupidon wings pale blue,the fair lady with the flowers in her hair- long pale blue streak on robe, the pale blue tips of the 3 cups laves, with pale blue central vine of 4 Cups.

3 individuals in amoreux rhyme with 3 cups- if I treated cupidon as 4th person in amoreux- rhymes with 4 cups-

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Perhaps this is the most relevant idea I see here. The presence of the angel provides balance on what otherwise would be an unstable, or unsolvable, situation.

indianstorm said:

Cupid has 6 arrows in his quiver plus one he's aiming with- 7 Arrows- 3cups + 4 Cups = 7 Cups together.

4 flowers on amoreux lady to the right hair rhymes with 4 cups.

This rhyme looks weighted to the right

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Excellent. There is a raising rhythm that goes from the pale angle to the heavy two cups on the upper section. The upper cup on 3C is heavier than the angle, then the two cups in 4C are heavier than the cup.

indianstorm said:

What did you admire?
i liked the body language of the man in amoreux- his hands point to the lady on the right, his gaze to lady on left, but his feet are pointing in both directions!! Lol!!--

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He touches one woman with his eyes and the other one with his hand. Somehow, the irresolution is repeated in the three of cups, were the upper cup equally responds to the two lower cups

indianstorm said:

What astonished you?
Men still can't make up their minds when it comes to choosing a woman- despite cupid getting involved.This was back in the day as well-- somethings dont change

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Perhaps cupid has to marry one of the women for the man to settle for the remaining one.

indianstorm said:

What would you like to see again?
cupid rogue arrow aimed better--

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NIce!

indianstorm said:

What was most tender?
3 and 4 cups saying there is more to this story-- it doesnt end here-- there's an extra cup in 4 for an extra person-- cupid- he is recognised for his part in the solution- so thank you!

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Excellent!

indianstorm said:

What was most wonderful?

well--i noted that we sometimes have difficulty picking sides- but this time the cards actually appears to have picked a side-- shades of red in the goblet, palle blue stripes, 4 cups to the xtreme right- saying pick her- the girl with the 4 flowers in her hair!!

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This is very acute, very good. Well done!

indianstorm said:

What did you think was happening?
I noticed there's a prominence of green in the lady to the left of THE LOVERS. there is no green in cupid or 3/4 cups. There is some sort of triangle going on here-- and the woman is being cut out or being phased out for whatever reason because the odds are against her. Not usre I am getting this- but it just seems she is not going to get her way!!

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I see it like a perfect example of how, when the solution isn’t inside the problem, it is because it is outside the problem. Either we make our mind about a choice, or someone else does it for us and we are forced to go for it. On the positive side, the conundrum present on the first two cards seems to settle in the last one. On the not so positive side, just as in the first card (lamoreux) the four characters have clear identities, they lose their identities in the last two cards. At the end, we don’t know who is pairing with whom.

Best,

EE



I will continue tomorrow...

You missed me. I think. I'm hidden in the middle of the first page.

EnriqueEnriquez said:

There is something I want to point out. Ideally, we should see just one whole rhythm, composed by the three cards. Not each card as a separate rhythm. In this case I would see that we are looking at a steady rhythm, since there is no sense of the whole sequence going neither up, nor down. In fact, the eye rhyme created by the wand and the sword gives a symmetric feeling to the whole sequence.

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Oh thank you! That makes a lot more sense to me than what I was doing and I bet it's a lot easier too!

EnriqueEnriquez said:

There are two ways of seeing: we can actively project our vision like torpedoes over the image, or we can become receptive with our eyes. This is a way of looking that is similar to hearing. Hearing is always receptive. To experience a poem we have to listen to it. Even if we are reading it, we must read it aloud so we can listen to its shape. In the same way we need to listen to the tarot’s shape, and we accomplish that by listening with our eyes.

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I have noticed that I can just be flipping through the deck or putting it back in order and I notice cards that "click" now. I have yanked cards out of the deck so many times to see which rhymes I am noticing.. lol I am really starting to love this!

EnriqueEnriquez said:

I was specially interested in the last sentence. The sword anchors the wand’s sound, but it is not as strong as the wand.

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I could feel it and see it but had few words to describe it. I think anchors is a great term.


Thank you! I am looking forward to the next one!

Hooked

to EE from Stormy

I tend to agree with what you are saying, which in practice can be seen as very close to the idea of lectio divina (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lectio_Divina). My only comment would be that I won’t bet this was the original intention of those who created the cards. It is just that the cards can be seen as meditation tools, and such meditation, in the absence of a religious intent, will lead to transversal thinking.

Stormy : I think I had the idea upon having a discussion with a Neuropsychiatrist. It dawned on us, that people don't get so distressed when they can't comprehend a said word, but are completely broken down when they can't comprehend what they see with their eyes. It is the old saying- trust your eyes and not your ears. The eye doesnt lie-- it sees what it sees. Humans keep a large databank of images as part of their schema so- when other cues or images comes along- you can try and assimilate it into your understanding. If it so differs,, then the quest of reason to try and work out the symbol occurs. Which more often than not lead to understanding.

If the Tarot was designed for the elitist of the 14th 15 th century, no different to the Hindu arian culture where the only the priests/Brahmin read the veda's- kings and warriors were read for most of it. So it is a selection bias who is privy to the tools of knowledge. But having said that--- it did filter down to the general population,,,,used as divination-- a form of NLP in my opinion with the Marseille and playing ( served its purpose as increasing social bonding and interaction in community)- Ecological theory-- that which brings us together- keeps us together.

People in the lower enchelon of societies had no time for meditation- but they had time for finding solutions to their various issues. Cue the Tarot-- something familiar-- a game and diviningtool-- the esoteric meditative quality is irrelevant-- but an expert diviner--who reads symbolism expertly-- may offer solutions to problems!!

I'll stop ther now--





Perhaps this is the most relevant idea I see here. The presence of the angel provides balance on what otherwise would be an unstable, or unsolvable, situation.

Stormy- yep- I was thinking even if you are mythical- you count!!




Excellent. There is a raising rhythm that goes from the pale angle to the heavy two cups on the upper section. The upper cup on 3C is heavier than the angle, then the two cups in 4C are heavier than the cup.

Stormy: it was difficult this one-- I just felt the rhyme was weighted to the right- thank you for clarifying why..




He touches one woman with his eyes and the other one with his hand. Somehow, the irresolution is repeated in the three of cups, were the upper cup equally responds to the two lower cups

Stormy: How obvious was the dilemma- have to say- well depicted in the JODO-CAMOIN- the feet gave way the uncertainty..



Perhaps cupid has to marry one of the women for the man to settle for the remaining one.

Stormy: Nice-- if Cupid did-- he's pick the one with the 4 Flowers-- he's not aiming for the other one-- Still the other woman is sidelined--






I see it like a perfect example of how, when the solution isn’t inside the problem, it is because it is outside the problem. Either we make our mind about a choice, or someone else does it for us and we are forced to go for it. On the positive side, the conundrum present on the first two cards seems to settle in the last one. On the not so positive side, just as in the first card (lamoreux) the four characters have clear identities, they lose their identities in the last two cards. At the end, we don’t know who is pairing with whom.

Best,

EE

Stormy: hmm-- this is something i didnt think of-- perhaps the problem was outside the 3 cards and so was the solution.
Thank you so much EE-- I feel a little better now-- that I am not way waaay off..

I will continue tomorrow

Royne de coupes ~ As de bastons ~ As de coupes

[Read from right to left ]

What did you notice? Enshrined red objects—a square in the Cups sides and circles in the branches of the wand and in the lid to the Queen’s cups. Light blue (not gray this time!) domes on the spires of the Ace mirrored with the Queen’s cups. The raindrops in the Ace are the exact opposite shape coming down from the sky.

What did you hear? A flowing melody in the curls of the cuffs in the Ace’s hand, like an undulating ostenato, contrasted by the sharp points or shagged sound, like percussion in the lines that superceded it (see attachment.) The Queen is listening to the same melody because her crown has the same flowing and jagged lines as the Ace’ hand’s cuff…

What did you admire? The Queen has a scepter that is fine gold and ebony carved. But she looks at the (seemingly worthless) cup made of copper. The flesh-tone is the gold and the yellow color is the copper because there is less of it, and therefore rarer, more valuable.

What astonished you? Looking deeper I see the hand holding the Wand is made of gold, perhaps divine. It is incorporeal, without a body, appearing from thin air. The contrast in background takes me aback in that there is no floor or basis in the Ace of Wands; the figures merely float above the ground. Inspiring, delicate, moving in space and time.

What would you like to see again? The cup in the Ace being held in the hand of the Queen

What was most tender? The expression on the Queen’s white face as she ignores the priceless golden baton.

What was most wonderful? The drops of fire falling from above, like a gift.

What did you think was happening? I think the Cup that the Queen holds is Cup from the Ace is being transformed as it passes under the Wand of the second Ace.

SilentBreeze said:

You missed me. I think. I'm hidden in the middle of the first page.

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He missed several of us - but - it's only Tuesday!

SilentBreeze, don’t worry. I will give feedback to every one of you. I need to go slowly. It is too hot in here!

EE

I just didn't know if you noticed my post or not, cause it was kind of hidden. Don't worry, take you time. And it is way too hot.

Triple digit temps in New York! Make sure you drink lots of water because the aridity of the air can be dangerous...

That's worse than in Florida...

indianstorm said:

used as divination-- a form of NLP in my opinion with the Marseille...

...People in the lower enchelon of societies had no time for meditation- but they had time for finding solutions to their various issues. Cue the Tarot-- something familiar-- a game and diviningtool-- the esoteric meditative quality is irrelevant-- but an expert diviner--who reads symbolism expertly-- may offer solutions to problems!!

I'll stop ther now--

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No, don’t stop! We need more of this thinking. We cannot always look at the tarot through the rear-view mirror.

Thanks,

EE