Thinking of deep dive into Morin, then Lilly. Any advice?

I've gathered some books written by Morin and Lilly and am planning to take a deep dive and work through these books page by page (first Morin, then Lilly), making notes, and applying what I learn to my natal chart (and some friends' natal charts and some event charts etc). If anyone has undertaken a similar exercise before and have tips to share/traps to avoid etc, greatly appreciated.

Is it ok to post puzzlers and sticking points here and ask for help?

To answer your last question first; Yes! By all means post your issues. It will force me, and others, to re-read and improve our own knowledge.

Lilly is the most readable; Morin the more comprehensive. But Morin wrote in Latin and therefore there's a translator between him and you. Secondly Morin wrote 24 books; not all are available!able in translation. I only have books 18 and 21-24 inclusive and they are not easy going. And thirdly; Morin was a revisionist, so there are areas where he doesn't follow the tradition.

That being said, Morin, like Lilly is towering figure and well worth the read.

Most people (including me) started the dip into the tradition with Lilly. He's more readable and Christian Astrology Book 1 is an excellent and comprehensible introduction. Book 2 is still the classic text on horary - though Sahl ibn Bishar is the first real horary text. Book 3 on natal Astrology is usually said not to be his best but I enjoyed it.

Thank You MinderWiz

I'll start working through Morin then ( I have Book 21 with others on the way from Amazon). I find, with careful reading, I can more or less make out what he is trying to say. I'll post here when (not if ;-)) I get stuck!

I'm slowly working through Morin Book 21

and while the terminology takes some getting used to, so far, so good.

I just wanted to say this.

What a terrific difference there is between the 'ancients' approach to astrology and post Alan Leo psychological pablum.

The former at least *tries* to make astrology work by making definite predictions with definite times, giving definite answers to horary questions etc. The fierce arguments are about theory and trying to predict more accurately.

The New Age folks (e.g Steven Forrest) warble on and on with mushy readings about what someone's psyche is like - all unverifiable, and that can be said to be true no matter what happens - a kind of poor man's psychology consultant. "Your core self (Sun) works against your emotional nature (Moon) " Duh what?

Ugh. if you want a psychology reading, go see a psychologist. Why pay good money to people with zero training in counseling and dodgy 'credentials' (Liz Green's fake PhD comes to mind)

Ok I just had to get it off my chest. To think I wasted two years on this New Age crap. Aaargh.

End Rant.

Back to Morin. What a brilliant writer. Once I finish his books, I'll work through Lilly.

Event/Prediction/'real world' oriented 'hard core' astrology is awesome. Ancients and also Fagan etc style siderealists. Dadsnook's methods. all brilliant.

I had the same experience when I read Lilly and Morin. There's a level of analysis and philosophical underpinning that is totally absent from what passes for Astrology in the second half of the twentieth century.

New Age devotees believe in the development of the human soul, despite the clear evidence to the contrary over the last 80 years or so. They therefore dismiss the tradition as being the product of less developed souls and therefore of no use in today's world. As you have realised, the case for the degeneration of Astrology is far stronger.

I could also develop a riposte to the argument that life is more complex now and therefore we need all the additional planet, dwarf planets, asteroids, etc. Technology might be more complex but life is not. The same issues kept cropping up in my horary threads that cropped up for Lilly or Sahl.

Eventually you will want to go back further. When you do, try starting with Vettius Valens. His Anthology can be found free on the internet and you will meet a level of analysis, empirical evidence and philosophical underpinning that matches Morin and dwarfs the modern stuff. You don't have to agree with it but you will find the Hellenistic authors a great basis to take on the medieval authors. Much of their methodology fed into the early medieval Arab and Persian work.

Vettius Valens. Noted.

Thank you Minderwiz for the tip (Valens) . Once I work through Morin and Lilly I'll tackle the Hellenistic authors.