Donnaleigh: Who is My Dad? (Paternity).

Debra said:

This is interesting and confirms my sense that Lenormand readings are quite rule-bound.

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People can use the deck any way they want. And many people start in a very open way. But they'll probably not get consistent agreement about the meaning of a spread from others. If you are almost always right - great, continue what you are doing.

I think many people find that there is less ambiguity and confusion when using the standard Lenormand vocabulary and grammar. And you're more likely to find yourself in agreement with other Lenormand readers.

Donnaleigh has done some of both. There are certain videos (especially some of the early ones) and certain methods where she takes greater liberties than others. My sense is that she'll probably try to help others decide when one is better than another.

I tend to be a fairly strict traditionalist, but there was one GT where I went way off the rails - I just couldn't help myself (and I tried!). The person thanked me deeply as the information I provided directly spoke to her situation. If that had been video-taped people would wonder what the h*** I was talking about. But that was really an exception.

l think it has to be the Traditionalist embedded in me that keeps both seperate.

Almost sacriligeous in my eyes to see systems combined. And also there are only a handful of cards that vary in meaning - so why mix?

Learners will think it is one system if they watched that video and had no idea whatsoever about what is out there. Eg Different systems.

I know some in South America see the Snake as a sex symbol and I"d accept it if it is a part of just that one system being used.

Im more flexible than some Tradionalists, but not with systems being mixed.

Fish as sperm is cool with me and even Sun as exposure, but not an excessive over use of "cheating" and "the other woman" in that reading nor the possibilities missed like:

Tower: Hospital.
Dog: Doctor.
Letter: Referral/ Official record/ Tests/Results.

Tower as isolation and Dog as friend - do not cut it for me.

I hope that sitter didnt have to pay $$$ for it.

But my main concern is learners thinking Bear is female and Whip is sex because that is shown in that video and therefore must be a part of the system she follows.

Lenormand is going to evolve into something completely different if we are not careful to maintain some form of discipline or boundaries.

DND

Teheuti said:

People can use the deck any way they want. And many people start in a very open way. But they'll probably not get consistent agreement about the meaning of a spread from others. If you are almost always right - great, continue what you are doing.

I think many people find that there is less ambiguity and confusion when using the standard Lenormand vocabulary and grammar. And you're more likely to find yourself in agreement with other Lenormand readers.

Donnaleigh has done some of both. There are certain videos (especially some of the early ones) and certain methods where she takes greater liberties than others. My sense is that she'll probably try to help others decide when one is better than another.

I tend to be a fairly strict traditionalist, but there was one GT where I went way off the rails - I just couldn't help myself (and I tried!). The person thanked me deeply as the information I provided directly spoke to her situation. If that had been video-taped people would wonder what the h*** I was talking about. But that was really an exception.

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I didnt have the luxury of making mistakes except when I made the move to spread my wings more away from "traditionalist teachings". Even then all the trials and errors were in practise only really.

No easy feat transitioning either.

She should, if she has learnt from certain mistakes, redo the video perhaps. It should have been removed.

That video sets off all kinds of warning bells.

Will look at a more up to date video maybe, but she does not have a fan here just based on the one.

DND

Teheuti said:

In defense and admiration of Donnaleigh. This is one of her earlier videos, I believe, as I think I remember it. In her enthusiasm, Donnaleigh started posting videos very early in her work with Lenormand. At first she was far looser and more intuitive in her interpretations. Many of her readings and experiments with techniques were heavily critiqued and discussed in depth in a couple of FB groups.

Over the years I've seen Donnaleigh admit mistakes and modify her approach becoming much more experienced and precise, especially with integrating tradition with modern methods. She practices a lot. She's seen the long term result of many readings. I admire her skill, dedication and commitment to revising and refining her approach based on concrete feedback. She's definitely learned from both her mistakes and the mistakes encountered in others through groups and forums.

I think you'll find her forthcoming book much more solidly based on what she's learned through study, trial, error and lots of feedback.

I've noticed that many people who write about Lenormand soon after being introduced to it will add all kinds of "innovations" to the system. They seem to want to make it their own, putting a unique mark on the field. Most who continue settle down and tend to establish a base that's closer to the original tradition. It works!

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Serial Killers can be nice people too Padma.

That is why no new friends for me.

All people can be nice, but it doesnt mean they are good at a job or a fantastic reader.

Padma said:

I love the Lens. I love how they speak to me. I even love it when I don't get it.

And Donnaleigh is a nice, positive and pleasant lady her dedication and her courage to carry on and share her enthusiasm (and her learning!!) in the face of online naysayers (on any site, not talking about just AT) is formidable. That is grace!

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It comes down to getting the basic meanings down packed and preferably from one system.

Not sure about rules, but it is definitely a system.

I feel there is a certain degree of discipline with them and even boundaries.

If the Whip suddenly became a cup of coffee - then it would be nothing more than just another Oracle deck.

DND

Debra said:

This is interesting and confirms my sense that Lenormand readings are quite rule-bound.

DND's critique seems informative. Perhaps the reader has modified her approach with experience, and if so, she might note that on the page, or remove the video completely. Public reaction to public videos is only to be expected.

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I will say this:

My teachers argued and argued over the BEAR card from time to time and I could never quite understand why. Very confusing at times and both were very stubborn.

The Traditionalist insisted it was "female" and the other "male".

I know now which system each belongs to, but when I get lazy or do not watch myself I will put paternal and maternal or mother, grand mother or father, grandfather etc.

From now on I will make the effort to seperate them in their own systems.

So, I make mistakes too.

DND

Teheuti said:

People can use the deck any way they want. And many people start in a very open way. But they'll probably not get consistent agreement about the meaning of a spread from others. If you are almost always right - great, continue what you are doing.

I think many people find that there is less ambiguity and confusion when using the standard Lenormand vocabulary and grammar. And you're more likely to find yourself in agreement with other Lenormand readers.

Donnaleigh has done some of both. There are certain videos (especially some of the early ones) and certain methods where she takes greater liberties than others. My sense is that she'll probably try to help others decide when one is better than another.

I tend to be a fairly strict traditionalist, but there was one GT where I went way off the rails - I just couldn't help myself (and I tried!). The person thanked me deeply as the information I provided directly spoke to her situation. If that had been video-taped people would wonder what the h*** I was talking about. But that was really an exception.

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Thank you for this, Mary. As one who has actually seen you read lennies, I know exactly what you mean. Being hide-bound by rules can mean losing out on the peripheral, just as much as it can mean being safe in the knowledge that it has to be this way because. I would want to know a lot more about the querent and the detail of the background before I dissed any video where we inevitably only get a part of the story.

As even the OP says frequently, x card "could also mean" - why should any one "could mean" be any more valid than another. What did the querent think of the reading she got from Donnaleigh ? THAT's what's important here. Not absolute rigidity.

Padma said:

I love the Lens. I love how they speak to me. I even love it when I don't get it.

And Donnaleigh is a nice, positive and pleasant lady her dedication and her courage to carry on and share her enthusiasm (and her learning!!) in the face of online naysayers (on any site, not talking about just AT) is formidable. That is grace!

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I agree. I'm still new to Lenormand reading, but I love it. I find Donnaleigh to be a good reader and I like her. I don't really care that she "mixes" the two ways, French and German together. I don't really know the French way or the German Way, so I probably mix some of the two together myself. What does it matter? I think everyone has to find what works for them. DonnaLeigh has apparently done this and will continue to do so and is known for being a very good reader. If it works for her, great! If it doesn't work for you--then don't follow her lead--find your own. Everyone is different. Everyone has to find what works for them. And, maybe this reading she had in her video, (which I thought was fine btw), worked for both her AND her client.

Debra said:

This is interesting and confirms my sense that Lenormand readings are quite rule-bound.

DND's critique seems informative. Perhaps the reader has modified her approach with experience, and if so, she might note that on the page, or remove the video completely. Public reaction to public videos is only to be expected.

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yes, very true. But, even if she doesn't go back and modify her approach--who cares? It is all up to her to decide how SHE will read. The bottom line is, if you don't like the way she reads, then avoid her. Plain and simple.

The video for "Paternity" looks like it was published in 2012.

Looked at this one just now done in 2013: "Lenormand 3 Card Mystery".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Izx0hNt5sYg

Between 2:20 mins and 2:48 she brings up: Fox, Bear, and Sun.

Bear is the Mystery card. (Love the deck).

No change with the SUN meaning and a double whammy with FOX and BEAR being WORK in the reading.

More or less:

Lies or something slick and something being exposed. Fox can mean work and so can Bear, so what is being exposed is to do with work.

Please tell me there are later ones than what I am seeing?

Good to see that BEAR has changed, but BEAR and FOX as work in a small spread at the same time? Must say that is different.

Now she is also just doing the French system.

I am sorry, but "mixing systems" does not sit right with me, and if she is not doing a specific question then with a general she should go right out with it.

Just off the top of my head:

A) At work (Fox) there is some kind of success (Sun). It could be a promotion (Sun). Behind it could be someone high up or in an authority position.(Bear).

B) There could be hidden issues (Fox) cleared up or dealt with efficiently (Sun) to do with the stomach or digestive area. (Bear).

I honestly think the word "exposure" is going to do my head in.


What I will say is this lay out is brilliant for practice, but the style of reading still does not sit right.....yet.


Adding:

Systems were not made for no reason. Each reader has the right to read the way they want, but my understanding is when the same cards are looked at - pretty much each person should be telling a similar story.

I do know 150 or 200 years ago has likely changed things, but perhaps with the "tradionalists" with it passed down from generation to generation - not very much.


DND

Well, in Belgium Tower is only hospital in combination with clouds (well, actually it means an acute sickness that could be life threatening), its main meaning is "official building" and "a long and happy life". Dog is always loyal friend. The bear is a negative card meaning jealousy, envy, general negativity and motherly protection.

For me Lenormand is purely intuitive, i'm totally self-thought. French, German, whatever school... i just see what I see and my friends/acquaintances for whom i do readings are happy with it. It resonates with them.

Like mice to me means stress, anxiety, "muizenissen" >> a Dutch/Flemish word which means worries. Muizen are Dutch/flemish for mice...

And the sun in Belgium means insight... besides courage, sun, luck, optimism and confidence...


If you develop a system and you stick with it, then I can't see a problem. Because all issues will be covered whatsoever...