Motherpeace---do you use it?

Grizabella

You don't really have control over a conversation. Discussion of who uses a deck will invariably include responses from people who don't use it and why as much as ones who do. That's how this thread started before it gradually moved to political defence.

But it shouldn't be surprising, considering that Motherpeace is a very galvanizing deck, the first round deck, the first women-centered deck, the first ideologically feminist deck, and a deck that continues to arouse response 40+ years after its debut. Its importance in Tarot history and its perspective of women's issues can't be undervalued. It ticks a lot of boxes, so almost any thread about it is guaranteed to bring up extended discussion.

There, Aeric, you said it far better than what I was searching for the words to say. That's all the reasons why I felt the need to always have one even if I thought I'd probably never use it.

And I agree---the art is quite primitive and all the women's crotches kind of put me off for a long time. I know we all have one, but for heaven's sake!

Anyway, I'm glad I decided to get past the negatives and look for the positive.


I chuckle to myself. Did you see the thread I started a few months ago about female centered decks, or male excluding decks or whatever it was? I mentioned MP and DOM and BW and after a short time there was a free for all. I walked away from ATForum for at least 3 months because the whole thing made me kinda sick feeling. (Gag)
For some reason the Motherpeace Deck, will always inspire this kind of reaction. In Men. There I said it. Men men men. It's a ship all filled with men. Python reference.
I like the deck myself and bought one purposely to study, during the "time of controversy" I also put a few AT members on my ignore list, which is what you should do too if you wanna have a civilized conversation around here sometimes. AND.....I don't care if people ignore me either, just so we're clear.
I will check out the Motherpeace study group if it hasn't been invaded by Trolls.

AT is quite a troll-free zone. I've been around for about 10 years and haven't seen one yet that stuck around. Or maybe there weren't ever any.

No, I didn't see that thread you started. I'll look for it, though.

In any group of people there will always be disagreements. Everyone keeps it pretty civil when one arises here. I've never put anyone on ignore even though I haven't always agreed with what others have said. I'll watch for you in the study group, too. :)
 

Aeric

I'm sorry but this reaction just makes me shake my head.

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=213862

I'm not ashamed to say that Chimera's thread was one in which I heavily participated and had many lively, articulate discussions with people, none of which was trolling or a flame war. Everyone who disagreed with each other engaged in open, articulate dialogue with no direct insults at members. The thread text itself proves this. It is a controversial deck in this day and age, but it didn't create a "time of controversy."

Yet, Chimera's absolutely right. The Motherpeace does produce this kind of reaction, in "men men men" as Chimera puts it, facetiously. As if the judgment by men of women-centered decks has no value, which is total nonsense. I'll say it again: if they didn't want everyone in the world to be able to express their opinions of their work, they shouldn't have published the decks on the open market. And if they have a problem with how men judge their work, then they're not for complete freedom of expression, which is what I thought these decks were about. Women aren't at fault for judging Sol Invictus, Gay, Brotherhood, or any other man-centered deck negatively. But just because you weren't the intended audience for a deck doesn't mean you can't critique it.

My point of all this was that Motherpeace incites a negative reaction from some people of both sexes, yet another deck created at exactly the same time doesn't, nor do decks of a similar nature created later in time. There has to be a reason for this and it has to be explored, to bring out the characteristics of the Motherpeace and its role in shaping women-centered Tarot.

But Chimera not only chose to leave, she put people on ignore, including myself no doubt, when things extended beyond the parameters of the first post, or when negative attitudes were expressed about a deck she may feel passionate about. This is not dialogue, this is not freedom of expression, it's sensitivity and selectivism. I hope Chimera can be encouraged to take those people off ignore because there wasn't a single person who has engaged in hostile words with another member.
 

Grizabella

Well, Aeric, you can't control who someone else has on ignore. It's just gonna happen when there's a spirited discussion.

Quoting Aeric:

My point of all this was that Motherpeace incites a negative reaction from some people of both sexes, yet another deck created at exactly the same time doesn't, nor do decks of a similar nature created later in time. There has to be a reason for this and it has to be explored, to bring out the characteristics of the Motherpeace and its role in shaping women-centered Tarot.

Well, could it possibly be that the other decks weren't criticized because they weren't woman-centered?

The Medicine Woman tarot is depicting Native Americans and Native Americans were, and still are to a great degree, a matriarchal society. It's not a feminist deck. I've owned it for years, book and all.

Nobody seems to criticize the Decameron. I don't have that one but I think it's the one depicting the giant penises and many things being done to women instead of being shared with women, if I remember correctly. I was really put off by that one even though I'm not lesbian.

Anyway, I'm loving using the Motherpeace and I'm able to see it as woman-affirming, not anti-male. I'm almost into my 70th year of life and I see things in the Motherpeace that are very healing and loving and also convey a deep and affirming wisdom. A deck doesn't have to reek of testosterone to be of value to society and to Tarot users. A healthy spritz of estrogen here and there is refreshing and affirming for me in particular and hopefully to women in general. It would be nice to be able to say "people in general" but obviously, that's a pipe dream at this point.
 

Aeric

Well, Aeric, you can't control who someone else has on ignore. It's just gonna happen when there's a spirited discussion.
Touche, madame. Well played.

Well, could it possibly be that the other decks weren't criticized because they weren't woman-centered?

The Medicine Woman tarot is depicting Native Americans and Native Americans were, and still are to a great degree, a matriarchal society. It's not a feminist deck. I've owned it for years, book and all.
No I wouldn't call MW a feminist deck. At this point I've drawn divisions between decks that are woman-centered, as in featuring women as the majority characters and role models: Medicine Woman, Shining Angels, Sacred Feminine, from decks that are politically feminist: Motherpeace, Daughters, etc. The feminist decks provide a particular goal in emphasizing a human woman's identity apart from a human man's and are charged with a socio-political energy sprung specifically from Goddess spirituality and the Women's movement. In essence, all decks promoting feminism are women-centered, but not all women-centered decks promote feminism.

Medicine Woman, although called "A Woman's Guide to Her Unique Powers," isn't politically feminist. Men are treated on equal ground as women in it, indeed unlike all other decks we discussed, a man is the central focus of an entire suit, where the political decks relegate him to one or a few cards each, preferring the focus squarely on ladies. Sacred Feminine isn't political at all, but a mythological deck focusing on legends about goddesses, rather than we humans. Shining Angels merely depicts all the angels in female shape, with the only men humans on the ground alongside human women.

Nobody seems to criticize the Decameron. I don't have that one but I think it's the one depicting the giant penises and many things being done to women instead of being shared with women, if I remember correctly. I was really put off by that one even though I'm not lesbian.
I haven't seen it in full but the AT images definitely make it feel male-domineering and not putting women in control of the act. I have trouble with hypersexual decks anyway, including the black-and-white gay occult deck whose name escapes me but is highly sexualized.

Anyway, I'm loving using the Motherpeace and I'm able to see it as woman-affirming, not anti-male. I'm almost into my 70th year of life and I see things in the Motherpeace that are very healing and loving and also convey a deep and affirming wisdom. A deck doesn't have to reek of testosterone to be of value to society and to Tarot users. A healthy spritz of estrogen here and there is refreshing and affirming for me in particular and hopefully to women in general. It would be nice to be able to say "people in general" but obviously, that's a pipe dream at this point.
The one thing you and I will always agree on is that all these decks provide a very good picture and affirmation for women. No matter which deck a person chooses, the woman will be exalted, encouraged to rise above suffering and recognize her uniqueness. All people have something beneficial to learn from that.
 

Grizabella

I appreciate your opinions, Aeric. And that touche' was one of my tongue-in-cheek moments. I couldn't resist, but I wasn't putting you down. Just good-natured ribbing. I couldn't help myself.

In Native American culture back in the past especially, women owned all the property and children. Men, if they didn't mind their p's and q's or bring home the bacon were just bumped out of the tipi without anything. Also, young couples did the gardening, cooking, hunting and other duties while grandparents raised the children so the young parents, who were better able physically, could do the rest of the chores. The premise behind matriarchy for them was that it wasn't always possible to know who a child's father was, but it was always known who the mother was.

I didn't get to keep Daughters of the Moon long enough to really be able to comment about it other than that I loved the deck's art work. I'm not familiar with the angel deck and the Sacred Feminine.

I think the Motherpeace is considered to be militantly feminist because of the state of society at the time and the state of women within society when it was created. It was a time when women were standing up and being heard that they wanted to be something besides secondary citizens and the property of their spouse. I guess it had to get militant or it wouldn't have been heard.

You know, here's my position personally. Women had so much more going for them in some ways when they weren't "liberated". Once they liberated themselves, men behaved like "Okay, there ya go, Sweets. Have at it." and things got really difficult for women. Maybe especially for women who hadn't even been one of the feminists in the first place. A woman being a woman is a very powerful being in the world. They don't have to compete with men or be like men to have power. We never got any equality of wages and things that were supposedly pushed for. We got on the wrong side of men in a man's world in many ways. Granted, there was some ground gained, but not all that much.
 

nisaba

Also, young couples did the gardening, cooking, hunting and other duties while grandparents raised the children so the young parents, who were better able physically, could do the rest of the chores.
In my young parent days. I would have liked that.

The premise behind matriarchy for them was that it wasn't always possible to know who a child's father was, but it was always known who the mother was.
And I love that. Very logical.

Historians think it was probably the desire to really know who the children's fathers were, that inspired such horrors as female segregation and sharia law.
 

chimera68

The Fool, Motherpeace Deck

deleted....thanks.
 

Grizabella

Thanks, chimera. lol I'm sure the mods can put your post into the study group where you thought you were posting. :D I thought only I did stuff like this! :p
 

Grizabella

Historians think it was probably the desire to really know who the children's fathers were, that inspired such horrors as female segregation and sharia law.

What law is sharia law? I haven't heard of that before.