How to handle people who have ignorant views on Tarot

nisaba said:

I know atheists that do all of those things.

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Maybe a better example would have been overhearing friends say to each other, "See you at church!" which is a bit of a giveaway.

I read Freyja's point as being that if we overhear something like that, even if we personally detest and despise and are extremely uncomfortable with Christianity (or any other belief) and resent believers mentioning it openly as if they weren't aware anyone may feel bad when they do - we still don't object out loud. Whereas when some people overhear friends saying to each other, "See you at the tarot session!" they don't feel inhibited to make it clear that (a) they're uncomfortable hearing this, (b) those people are "wrong" to be into tarot, (c) any other impressions they have such as tarot being dangerous etc.

Obviously that is a hypothetical scenario but I hope it illustrates the point.

Personally, and I don't think I'm unusual in this, if I know a topic will trigger aggressive reactions - as distinct from boredom - I avoid bringing it up for that reason. It isn't always fear, often it's simply a choice to spend my energy in more pleasant ways. And a confrontation leaves a bad taste; I don't eat foods that I dislike, and that isn't fear either. But it is courtesy that prevents me from attacking people who mention things I strongly disapprove of and would never practise in my own life. If they seek my opinion I'll give it, though trying to find a kind and fair way of wording it; if they don't, unless I'm their parent, I won't.

There is a very big difference between glazing over when a subject comes up, and criticising without hearing the person's reasons for their views. We all have the right to avoid criticism where it can be predicted.

And I feel everyone should have the right to bounce into the room and say, "I've had a great day! I picked up one of the decks I've longed for, at a quarter of the price I expected!" Friends may not be interested in the deck but they can be glad for the joy. Same if my friend is delighted about finding a first edition of their favourite author, whose books I can't stand. Or in my case, I'm into linguistics, and have been known to go into raptures at finding an English-Korean dictionary and Teach Yourself Norwegian on the same day for about £2 each; absolutely no one cared about the books (which gave me happy bedtime reading for days n days), but people were nice enough to smile when I excitedly announced the finds. I didn't carry on about it as much as I would with a fellow linguist who'd have shared the excitement, because I understand glazed-over eyes, but I also didn't feel I would offend anyone by sharing the fact I'd had a bit of luck that related to an interest of my own.

And I would be completely astonished if anyone responded by telling me I was *morally wrong* to be interested in Korean or Norwegian.

Isn't that the real point?

Give her a break, Nisaba.

Freyja of V said:

First, I am so sorry you have a concern of being judged. When I was younger I worried myself rampant what people thought of me. Now, I go through that sometimes, and of course with this, but generally I don't care anymore.

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Ditto and ditto, me too and me too - I'm voicing this specific issue quite a lot here on AT, because as far as I know it's my ONLY remaining inhibition about what people think of me. I used to worry about it in all contexts, but life (and common sense, slow as that was to kick in) beat that out of me.

Freyja of V said:

Regarding my husband, he is amazing! I am very lucky. We tell each other everything. I have been listening to his software developing problems for years and about Xbox games and he gets to listen to me talk about Tarot and photography (which he likes too so that doesn't count). Even though deep down he could care less about Tarot itself, the fact that I am interested in makes him interested in it and I love him for that. He has been curious about the symbolism in the images and thinks it's pretty cool. He does kind of thinks it's silly, but that's ok.

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That's perfect. And that's friendship, by my definition.

My son's a composer and I have the bare bones of music theory, so I'm the only one in the family who has a clue what a dominant seventh is, but it's a relief to him to be able to mention terms like that even though I can rarely follow the technicalities. I do my best to understand, but I can show an interest by asking "And then what difference will that change make?" and suchlike. And THAT is courtesy on my part. (Meanwhile I refrain from talking about gerundives and ablative absolutes and semantic shift, and he does his best to sound interested when I say that 'squirrel' and 'arse' are distantly related. )

I think that when discussing spiritual things one should be very careful of using words like ignorant. Unless something is blatantly harmful like female circumcision, saying someone's belief could be interpreted as a simple case of double standards. For a believer who sees Tarot as forbidden, I am the one who is ignorant because I have not seen the light of their faith. And actually, they're right, because the tenets of their faith decree that Tarot is in fact evil. This is more than a simple belief, it is their truth, the reality that they live by.

My own reality is that Tarot isn't evil, but organized religion as a political force is. However, the only way I can say that this isn't my personal opinion is if I scientifically test Tarot, and the existence of whatever god(s) the other side believes in. Since both are impossible, whoever believes I will go to hell for using Tarot may very well be correct. If we're talking about die-hard atheists, my analytical mind refuses to discard the idea that reading fortunes in cards goes against most of my beliefs. I myself am a die-hard atheist, and were I asked objectively my opinion about Tarot, I would say it is a silly opium for the masses. And yet I use it every day.

So it isn't really black and white, either accepting Tarot or believing in it or not. I personally know at least one Pagan who thinks Tarot cards are stupid.

As for talking with other people about Tarot, I don't. Not much, at least. I will talk about it if asked, but what interests me about Tarot tends to bore even Tarot enthusiasts, so I assume not many people are interested in my niche-inside-a-niche interests. After over twenty years of dealing with the cards, I've come to the point where I've heard almost every argument for or against them, and I'm over it. I have zero inclination to either try and "convert" people or to justify myself. Even if someone is interested in Tarot, I will generally refer them to appropriate literature, since I'm not a teacher, either. I will do a reading if asked, but I don't offer.

This isn't to say I hide anything. My decks are prominently displayed in my home, I take a deck with me everywhere and even take the cards out in public. If people ask questions I answer them politely but generally don't volunteer too much information. I do live in a conservative country, though, and the only kinds of places I consciously hide my interests is in religious places like Jerusalem, where things can flare up pretty quickly.

Freyja of V said:

Questions:
How have any you handled this if it came up?
Do any of you hide the fact that you read Tarot cards?
Has your reading Tarot caused any problems with friends/family members?

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Freyja I've just read the thread and I know you said you are done with it, but I wanted to share anyway.

I live in the Bible Belt, I understand why you cannot or will not tell your Catholic In-Laws about your interest in Tarot. That's a completely personal choice and I'm all for avoiding conflict when there is no need to engage. In the Metro Atlanta Area, I can be a little more open, but I work with many people who would either consider all of my metaphysical interests "stupid" or "against God's will". So I would either be considered an idiot or a satanist, even though I don't believe in Satan...no need to bring it up there.

To answer your questions: I don't hide the fact that I read cards. If it comes up, I'm open to discussing it. I used to keep it quiet when my daughter was younger because I didn't want the parents of her friends keeping her away from them due to an interest of mine. Once she and her friends were all 18 and had their own cars, my decks remained out in the open in my home.

Regarding my in-laws, my husband has always completely been fine with anything I do. I left it up to him as to whether we mentioned it or not to his family, but on some occasions (holiday dinners, etc) my own family and friends would bring up the subject of Tarot and/or Readings in front of the in-laws anyway. Turns out they are all fine with it...

There are relatives in my extended family who fully embrace my involvement with Tarot, but they agree we shouldn't bring it up to everyone in the family. The Christians don't like it, so why rock the boat?

I did lose one friend due to Tarot, and I'm still very sad about it at times. We were very close as teenagers when she was a Baptist and I was an Atheist. I listened to her for years on end giving her interpretation of God and the Bible with great interest in case she knew something wonderful that I should know, all the while she was doing drugs and sleeping around. I loved her and I was accepting of her no matter what. We lost contact for a few years and when we found each other again I had mentioned Tarot (in a fiction piece I had written) and she just let me have it. Her disrespect towards it before I even had a chance to tell her anything was just too much for me. She could not accept the fact I wrote a story with Tarot in it, how was she ever going to accept I actually read cards? HA...It sounds ludicrous to me even as I type it. Whether it was her initial response or my response to her that set off an argument and ended our friendship I don't know. What I do know is it was very painful to know that even though I loved her throughout her own immoral actions, she could not tolerate or even discuss rationally my interest in Tarot. (and her actions then and as an adult are immoral according to her own belief system. I'm not judging her)

So, I guess what I'm trying to say is, there is a time and a place for everything. It's not imperative that everyone know what you do, especially if it is going to ruffle feathers that don't really have to be ruffled. Yes, it's their problem and not ours when they over react to something they don't understand, but I've found it almost impossible to rationalize with someone who has such strong convictions that they won't even consider anything that goes against that.

Wishing you all the best in your situation.

What many others said... I don't hide it but I don't advertise it.

For the longest time I was in dire straits with trying to keep most of my family from knowing I used Tarot. My family on my mother's side were fundamentalists of a fanatical persuasion. After quite a few years, though, and oddly enough, after I moved into one particular house, that feeling fell away. I still didn't really want some family to know and argue with me, but it was when my mom passed away about a year and a few months ago that I just let all the fear go.

My stance now is that I don't really mind who knows. I live in a seniors community now and I can tell from some of the books in bookcases around the building for us to borrow books from that there are Christians here who might be offended by it, so I don't flaunt it. I won't ever hide it, but I don't have to wear a Tarot t-shirt and put a sign on my door, either. Actually, come to think of it, though, I might put out a sign for Halloween. But ordinarily, I'm just discreet.

I definitely understand anyone who is concerned about problems with religious family members or in-laws who are convinced Tarot is evil. Why antagonize them with knowledge that will cause family discord? Just keep it within the framework of your home and your open-minded friends who are okay with it.

Grizabella said:

I definitely understand anyone who is concerned about problems with religious family members or in-laws who are convinced Tarot is evil. Why antagonize them with knowledge that will cause family discord? Just keep it within the framework of your home and your open-minded friends who are okay with it.

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THIS. I also have friends with whom I disagree "violently" about politics and religion and even diet.

I love them.

We don't talk about this stuff - though I do express objections to - e.g. racist or homophobic slurs.

I think everyone has red lines that cannot be crossed. If someone makes homophobic slurs then that just goes too far for me, and despite the many other good qualities they might have, I probably wouldn't friends with them.

Same for Tarot. I think that it is quite alright to not like it, even to think it is nonsense and that everyone who even looks at a deck is either a deluded fool or a tool of Satan... but it's ultimately what they do with that opinion that matters. If I know they feel that way then I just won't involve them or tell them anything about it. If, however, they make a point to start preaching to me about it every time we meet, if they allow it to intrude on our relationship to the point where there's nothing left then chances are we wouldn't have gotten to the point of a friendship anyway.

How people externalize their emotions is often far more important than their actual opinions.

I have a choice regarding with whom I share my love of tarot & choose accordingly. I wonder though if leaving a *shock horror - I don't believe I'm saying this!! * DV angel deck lying about could lessen any angst with the in laws

People believe what they want - no matter what we say or do - there are some that are happiest staying within rigid parameters, & others who enjoy judging & feeling morally superior to everyone else - enjoy what you do & don't worry about it!!

I'm between being private and actively hiding

I live in a very Christian area and all of my family is very conservative. My mother, sister and fiance known that its something that I practice, they are the only people who do.
I'd love to be able to do public readings (i'm just now feeling confident with my knowledge) but am to afraid that it would get back to my extended family.
Not because I'm afraid of the negative reaction. I'm perfectly happy to tell people my differing views but because they would see this as some sort of cry for help.
They are the kind of people who would shove there religion down my throat. These are good people and they honestly believe in what they do and say and also truly believe that they are helping me get to heaven.

I don't want to argue with people that I love so I don't. All my cards are in an unassuming box in my library and you wouldn't notice the books on the shelves unless you studied every title. Also my library is upstairs so only the closest of guests go in there anyway.

I don't openly share that I read tarot, but I don't necessarily hide it. My real name is Laurelle and I have posted my real picture and I have a website with my real name attached to it....so....I am me! And I like me! Yeah me!

I was reading a tarot book at lunch the other day. Didn't care if someone was offended.

You can't please everyone in life and, goodness, I can't even try.

If someone has a problem with tarot, then that's there problem. They are on their own path and have to figure things out in their own way, in their own time.

Paul Foster Case:

"The Wisdom of God is foolishness with men. This it is that those men, found in every generation, who gain unusual knowledge of the LifePower, are often called madmen or fools by their less enlightened breathen." (13)