Numerology for the pips

Melanchollic

frelkins said:
Mel, i you, but I still don't get this.

it seems to me that in the context of the question the cards interpret we, to be Yoda-esque about it.

i just don't get why certain numbers could be "challenging" outside of any sitter's context. That's why I'm a-luvin' da list, because it leaves value judgements to the context of the sitter and simply describes the movement of the energy. help me!

I guess since the Pythagoreans viewed the Decad (1~10), particularly when arranged in a Tetraktys, as a sort master map of all phenomenon in the universe, they felt it should include a full range of experiences and principles, not just positives, hence they gave some negative qualities to some of the numbers.

It certainly helps clarify the situation when reading. Say if a querent asks if they should take 'Choice A' or 'Choice B', and 'A' is a 9 of Batons, and 'B' is an 8 of Batons. Which is better? Why?

SolSionnach

frelkins said:
But Sravana, has this addressed your questions?

Hey frelkins, yes, I see it more clearly now - these phrases have to be used IN THE CONTEXT OF THE QUESTION, rather than simply pulling one card and trying to figure out what that card means, in the same way that the RWS 6/Swords is interpreted as "a journey by water".

My only other question re: the 3-card spread above - are you relating coins to earth, or to water as Mel does?

That being said, I've been out of town at my tarophobic parents' house, arguing about whether Palin or Obama is more qualified to be Prez/Veep. I MEAN! lol

So I haven't done much thinking along these lines as of yet.

Later...

frelkins

Melanchollic said:
Say if a querent asks if they should take 'Choice A' or 'Choice B', and 'A' is a 9 of Batons, and 'B' is an 8 of Batons. Which is better? Why?

Mel, you armless dear you, I can't say which is better. Only the sitter can know that because it's the sitter's life and the sitter's choice. Two alternatives that look strange or pointless to me could make perfect sense and have important value to the sitter. I respect the sitter and not the theory!

Altho' the theory has much value and helps me, helps the sitter.

Let's take the Relationship Question again: "Mr. Handsome or Mr. Cutie: Which should go I home with now?"

Choice A, Handsome: 8 Baton or "the action of this end object"
Choice B, Cutie: 9 Baton or "the process of this action"

8 is action on the end of going home. Mr. Handsome wants to do you now.
9 is the process on the end of going home. Mr. Cutie is interested in a relationship first.

The sitter might want to wait for the romance to blossom - roses! spring! - or she might might want a meaningless fling. It's her life. Which one will be better is her choice based on her situation. I wouldn't say.

Would you Mel? What would say? Bite the bullet please and answer your own question!

Melanchollic

Frel & Mel - Episode 1 - "The Unexpected Offer"

Hi Frelkins,

I agree, the querent must make their own choices about a reading.

Answer my own question? Easy enough. Explaining the 'whys' is the hard part. (Keep in mind, my interpretation may not be 'fully compatible' with your methods, though it is of great value to see how someone else calculates judgement.)

If I were to judge this as a relationship question, as you did, it would be a simple matter.

Q: Should I go out with Mr. Handsome (Baton 8), or Mr. Cutie (Baton 9)?

A: Neither.

Q: Why?

A: Batons indicate efforts, laborious endeavors, etc. They are better behaved toward the high numbers, but still... none of the pleasures of the cup or comforts of the coin here.

Now, for a situation where the querent must decide, and 'neither' is not an option, we'll need to go a little deeper.

Let's say the querent is a professional, with a good job in a nice company. A rather rare and random offer comes his way from another great company — the kind that won't come again soon. There are the expected pluses and minuses on both sides. The querent really can't decide.

Current job - Baton 9

Prospective job - Baton 8

What I'd tell the querent - The prospective position would in some ways be more agreeable to you. A slightly slower pace, a more sympathetic work environment, less competitive, and better job security. Your current position is more intense, stressful, with a more competitive environment, but it does offer the opportunity for advancement more so than the prospective job. But, with these opportunities come risks.

Is anyone following my reasoning for these judgements? Comments? Critiques? Horrible Criticisms? Shameless Flattery? Offers of Marriage?

I have to go shoe a horse right now, but will explain myself on the next exciting epiosode of "Frel & Mel".

SolSionnach

Hell, I'd marry ya!

More later..

Melanchollic

Frel & Mel - Episode 2 - "Mel Gets a Proposal"

Some explanation -

The tradition calls the 8 'Embracer Of All Harmonies' and 'Safety'. It is literally a CUBE ~ safe, stable, and balanced.

On my 'square model' diagram, we can see this visually represented. The 7 launches us up on our ascent toward the 10. Once launched the 8 is on a coasting flight on the 'straight and narrow' It ascends by its own momentum, effortlessly, but has little option to do otherwise.

The Eight of Batons combines the Earth of the Baton, and the Water of the Eight, giving us a Melancholic-Phlegmatic nature (industrious but complaisant). The common 'power' here is Cold. The Aristotelian tradition describes Cold as uniting, joining, relating, undiscriminating, sympathetic, stable, enduring and slow.

So, I would judge the prospective job to be agreeable, a slower pace, a more sympathetic work environment, less competitive, and better job security. But the danger of the Eight of Batons is in getting too comfortable and never challenging yourself to get out of the comfort-zone.

The Pythagoreans called the 9, 'Limitation', 'Final Limit', 'That Which Brings Completion', 'The Near Perfect', 'Shortcoming', and 'Failure'.

Look again at the 'square model'. Using a rocket launch allegory again, the coasting flight ascent of the 8 comes to a halt at the 9. If our flight trajectory was good, and our rocket clears that corner, the 9 will be 'what brings completion' and we will have arrived at the 10. If we are off however, we will fall back down to earth. It is that 'last hurdle'. Even if we have jumped all the previous hurdles, if we trip on the last one, we fail.

The Nine of Batons combines the Earth of Batons and the Air of the 9. Earth and Air are opposites and share no common power. The Batons are mildly malefic, so the unifying of these opposites proves laborious. This card shows a situation where tension is high, you can see your goal, but reaching it will require great effort.

Hence, I judged the current job as intense, stressful, with a more competitive environment, but with the opportunity for advancement, but failure is also possible.

sravana said:
Hell, I'd marry ya!

More later..

Well first you'll have to pass Mel's detailed inspection.. and then you meet mama. :laugh:

frelkins

First you say Mel:

Melanchollic said:
Yes, they are useful. But, alas, The Theology of Arithmetic never lists the six remaining numbers in direct reference to these.

then:

Melanchollic said:
The tradition calls the 8 'Embracer Of All Harmonies' and 'Safety'. It is literally a CUBE ~ safe, stable, and balanced.

So Mel there are phrases and keywords for all the numbers "in the tradition" and you ain't saying? Tease!

Melanchollic said:
Well first you'll have to pass Mel's detailed inspection.. and then you meet mama.

Well Mel despite your picky orneriness, I think our wine cellars, cheese tastes, cultural preferences, and jazz collections will harmonize. So if you don't like sravana's hooves or the length of her mane - or should mama object to the star on her forehead - I am more than pleased to run my paces for you next.

And I get along with everyone's mother.

We're still friends, right, sravana?

Melanchollic

frelkins said:
So Mel there are phrases and keywords for all the numbers "in the tradition" and you ain't saying? Tease!

I was referring to that specific sequence you liked so much...

Basically all of The Theology of Arithmetic is phrases and keywords for 1 ~ 10. Yes, the whole book!!

The problem is, it seems to have been someone's lecture notes or something, with little snippets from various famous Pythagoreans, all mixed up in a totally disorganized mess. Sometimes you'll find interesting things about the 3 over in the section on the 4... sometimes the snippets from Anatolius contradict the snippets from Nichomachus, etc. The trick is finding the 'thread' that pulls the whole thing together. I also try to not rely on later Renaissance neo-Platonic sources on number mysticism, and see just what I can milk out of what few pre-Christian fragments of Greek arithmology that remain.

SolSionnach

Melanchollic said:
Well first you'll have to pass Mel's detailed inspection.. and then you meet mama.

Heh, of course, you'd have to pass Sravana's smell test, and you don't want to meet mama!

frelkins said:
So if you don't like sravana's hooves or the length of her mane - or should mama object to the star on her forehead - I am more than pleased to run my paces for you next. And I get along with everyone's mother.

We're still friends, right, sravana?

Are you calling me a HORSE??
Mercy, that's a lot to deal with between friends... but I guess I'll manage.

(this after I just spent about an hour talking with a friend about her horse!)

I've copied and pasted much of this conversation into Word, and hopefully I'll have something to say about it soon - like whether or not I get it at all, or if I'm just going to go back to the g**d*** GD for pip meanings, and trash this!

frelkins

sravana said:
Mercy, that's a lot to deal with between friends... but I guess I'll manage.
(this after I just spent about an hour talking with a friend about her horse!)

Only riffing off your avatar, sravana!

Melanchollic said:
see just what I can milk out of what few pre-Christian fragments of Greek arithmology that remain.

Ok Mel, so whatever the source, throw it down. Keywords please, 1-10.

Melanchollic said:
laborious endeavors

well Mel that's because YOU CHANGED THE SITTER'S QUESTION. What K asked me in tango class was which one to GO HOME WITH. Not go OUT with.

She is looking for willingness to undertake "laborious endeavors," preferably for several hours at a time on her 400 thread count sheets. Sheesh, Mel. You can't change the sitter's question!

Numerology for the pips

Melanchollic

SolSionnach

frelkins

Melanchollic

SolSionnach

Melanchollic

frelkins

Melanchollic

SolSionnach

frelkins