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The Happy Squirrel  The Happy Squirrel is offline
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Originally Posted by daphne View Post
For 5. As a profit making entity Baba can do whatever the customers allow them to do / are willing to pay. If they price a luxury deck at 1000 $, do we pay? If yes, the show goes on, the sky is the limit. And it's on us, not on them, they exist as a business because costumers pay.
Yep. That is implied in the "profit making" bit of that statement
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Fanu View Post
No mention of money. It's money that seems to be bothering people. You can call it "left out" or not being part of a marketing focus - but for all the euphemisms - people want something nice, cheaper. Understandable, but I still think it amounts to a bit of a tantrum.
Of course, people want something nice cheaper - and business want the highest profit that they can get. Both are in human nature. Just 2 sides of a coin. Depending where you are.

I don't mind paying the price for something nice ( I paid far more than that for decks); but I do mind having to buy something extra - unrelated, useless - just so I can get the item I want. I don't consider me being cheap for this reason - I consider the business wanting to do extra profit on me. Just my view.

ETA I have beautiful silk scarves - with patterns well suited to tarot - they don't work (for me) for reading. The silk (if it's not underlined) is slippery and it moves all around (I tried). I can't use a silk scarf as a spread cloth. I use spread cloth specially made as such as spread cloth. So, for me, the 2 items are unrelated (tarot and a silk scarf)(tarot and an underlined matching spread cloth, -preferably not from thin silka scarf is made, but this is a personal preference -yah, that combination would work -I might buy it even if I don't have to).

But hey, if other people are happy with it, that's OK too. In the end everybody has a choice - to buy or not to buy it!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Happy Squirrel View Post
I did until recently Haaaaa.....
I'm not surprised.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Fanu View Post
No mention of money. It's money that seems to be bothering people. You can call it "left out" or not being part of a marketing focus - but for all the euphemisms - people want something nice, cheaper. Understandable, but I still think it amounts to a bit of a tantrum.
I don't think it necessarily amounts to a tantrum to call things out on being expensive. It's kind of like peoples' criticisms with celebrities for buying very, very expensive things, or living in unsustainable ways. Some people are happier living in moderation and purchasing in moderation. Everyone's free to speak about their thoughts on that, including those who like expensive items and find them worth it, and those who think that such purchases are foolish.

I remember one poster on another thread (I think it was 'Most expensive deck you bought' or something like that) saying something like, 'Pretty much all decks are overpriced. They're pieces of cardstock with images on them.' I've met people who are surprised to learn that the average mass market deck is as much as 20 USD. It's just a matter of perspective and discernment.
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All decks are over priced because they are just pieces of card stock with images on them? That appears to completely disregard the artistic input. Are great paintings just pieces of canvas with images on them?

I recognize the point that many many people cannot afford the very costly decks. But I do not see that it is the responsibility of Baba Studio. They have a living to make and this is how they're making it. There tarot decks are of high-quality and with artistic merit. I see no reason why they should not be able to make a decent living from their art.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alta View Post
All decks are over priced because they are just pieces of card stock with images on them? That appears to completely disregard the artistic input. Are great paintings just pieces of canvas with images on them?

I recognize the point that many many people cannot afford the very costly decks. But I do not see that it is the responsibility of Baba Studio. They have a living to make and this is how they're making it. There tarot decks are of high-quality and with artistic merit. I see no reason why they should not be able to make a decent living from their art.
Yeah, I definitely don't agree with this end of the spectrum either. I was just presenting that people look at prices all sorts of ways, and aren't necessarily angry. Some folks are cheaper than others!
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The Happy Squirrel  The Happy Squirrel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Fanu View Post
No mention of money. It's money that seems to be bothering people. You can call it "left out" or not being part of a marketing focus - but for all the euphemisms - people want something nice, cheaper. Understandable, but I still think it amounts to a bit of a tantrum.
The term and observation of being "left out" is not a euphemism. I am not very good with skirting around an issue, as some here on AT can perhaps testify. So I actually did mean to refer to an emotional component. I was not using the term to mask the most common of economical rational thinking of wanting something nicer, for cheaper.

I guess the turning point on which way one go with this perspective is whether one believe a deck is truly worth what it is selling for.

Going back to the term "feeling a bit left out", I personally think that there is actually a genuine emotional component to this phenomena, and it has very little to do with money. Human emotion is a component of target marketing for a reason. Customers who remain loyal to a producer and their products are so very often motivated **not** by economic rationals. And for this very reason the key to a great marketing campaign is often one which can take potential buyers **away** from economic rationals (just google De Beers diamond campaign, the most successful campaign of all time), or, rationality of any kind (look at Hermes bags that cost up to $50,000 for ONE bag, or something ridiculous like that).

At times, someone would see "beyond the marketing veil" and created a ruckus. I can theorize that those who paid good money to remain in this golden haze behind the veil could potentially find this terribly annoying (I am not saying you, or myself, prefer to be deluded, that is not what I am saying here). It would be so much more fun for us to buy into the same "fantasy" and play along (that a deck can actually be worth $450 for its sheer beauty and "relative" rarity alone and without real historical significance. Perhaps. Perhaps not. And that owning it will makes us happier. Perhaps. Perhaps not). I am not saying Baba's up market decks are not phenomenal. They are. They are a class of their own (I own, and spent, plenty on them).

But any dissenting voices about their prices is perhaps worth more merit than the term "tantrums" may suggest.

Wanting something nicer and cheaper as paying customers on the one hand, and wanting to produce for as cheap as possible and sell as expensive as possible on the producers' side of things, is what keeps our free economy ticking, as they say. Can't remember the technical economical term for it at the moment. It has been more than a life time since my last Econ 101. Whatever the correct term is, these two facts are pretty much what made the foundation of any commercial activities, for obvious reasons. These almost opposing desires is not something that should even be debated for this reason, I personally think.

So then we go back to whether a deck can truly worth a certain amount of money.

Objectively, perhaps not so much.

So now we go back to what I said above. That the marketing of a segment labelled "high end" often relies on sentiments and emotions, because by definition, that is what they are selling in the end, the add-value component is the emotional aspects of the item.

I will have to refer you again to diamond, which is not actually rare, but De Beers have iron fist control over its supply, and all of its marketing campaign relies on sheer emotions (the engaging ring tradition was created by their marketing campaign after the Great Depression severely curtailed their profit margin).

So those who simply want a good quality reasonably priced decks are indeed being left out of the the newly carved out market segment that Baba is targeting.

Fair enough for Baba Studio because independent deck producers are producing excellent quality decks for about $40-$80. They want to carve their own niche. Good on them.

But that does not negate the fact that in order to do so they have to abandon, and is abandoning, their (previously targeted) market segment. As such, there is actual cause for some to feel left out. Because they actually, literally, have been.
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Repeating what I had said way way back here - a thing is only worth what you are willing to pay.

Myself, well...I have other things, like fun experience, that I would rather spend it on.

And LeFanu...I am very sorry to say it, but I don't think "tantrums" applies - it is the sadness of a collector of knowledge and beauty knowing that what they have always wanted (but could never have) is now going into print again - and they *still* can't afford it. And that is indeed a sad thing.
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rylla  rylla is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Happy Squirrel View Post
The term and observation of being "left out" is not a euphemism. I am not very good with skirting around an issue, as some here on AT can perhaps testify. So I actually did mean to refer to an emotional component. I was not using the term to mask the most common of economical rational thinking of wanting something nicer, for cheaper.

I guess the turning point on which way one go with this perspective is whether one believe a deck is truly worth what it is selling for.

Going back to the term "feeling a bit left out", I personally think that there is actually a genuine emotional component to this phenomena, and it has very little to do with money. Human emotion is a component of target marketing for a reason. Customers who remain loyal to a producer and their products are so very often motivated **not** by economic rationals. And for this very reason the key to a great marketing campaign is often one which can take potential buyers **away** from economic rationals (just google De Beers diamond campaign, the most successful campaign of all time), or, rationality of any kind (look at Hermes bags that cost up to $50,000 for ONE bag, or something ridiculous like that).

At times, someone would see "beyond the marketing veil" and created a ruckus. I can theorize that those who paid good money to remain in this golden haze behind the veil could potentially find this terribly annoying (I am not saying you, or myself, prefer to be deluded, that is not what I am saying here). It would be so much more fun for us to buy into the same "fantasy" and play along (that a deck can actually be worth $450 for its sheer beauty and "relative" rarity alone and without real historical significance. Perhaps. Perhaps not. And that owning it will makes us happier. Perhaps. Perhaps not). I am not saying Baba's up market decks are not phenomenal. They are. They are a class of their own (I own, and spent, plenty on them).

But any dissenting voices about their prices is perhaps worth more merit than the term "tantrums" may suggest.

Wanting something nicer and cheaper as paying customers on the one hand, and wanting to produce for as cheap as possible and sell as expensive as possible on the producers' side of things, is what keeps our free economy ticking, as they say. Can't remember the technical economical term for it at the moment. It has been more than a life time since my last Econ 101. Whatever the correct term is, these two facts are pretty much what made the foundation of any commercial activities, for obvious reasons. These almost opposing desires is not something that should even be debated for this reason, I personally think.

So then we go back to whether a deck can truly worth a certain amount of money.

Objectively, perhaps not so much.

So now we go back to what I said above. That the marketing of a segment labelled "high end" often relies on sentiments and emotions, because by definition, that is what they are selling in the end, the add-value component is the emotional aspects of the item.

I will have to refer you again to diamond, which is not actually rare, but De Beers have iron fist control over its supply, and all of its marketing campaign relies on sheer emotions (the engaging ring tradition was created by their marketing campaign after the Great Depression severely curtailed their profit margin).

So those who simply want a good quality reasonably priced decks are indeed being left out of the the newly carved out market segment that Baba is targeting.

Fair enough for Baba Studio because independent deck producers are producing excellent quality decks for about $40-$80. They want to carve their own niche. Good on them.

But that does not negate the fact that in order to do so they have to abandon, and is abandoning, their (previously targeted) market segment. As such, there is actual cause for some to feel left out. Because they actually, literally, have been.
Very well put Happy Squirrel, even this one sentence you wrote says it all:
"I guess the turning point on which way one go with this perspective is whether one believe a deck is truly worth what it is selling for."
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rylla  rylla is offline
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BTW, how many decks of Alice large size deck were issued?
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