Knight of Cups and Death

Vincent said:

The divinatory meaning for the Knight of Cups is given as; Arrival, approach--sometimes that of a messenger... which does have a kind of grim similarity with Death.
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It's interesting to note the parallel between the Christian Knight, (in Durer's engraving), ignoring Death and the Devil as he travels on the road, doing God's work, and Death, (in Waite's card), ignoring royalty, priesthood, women and children as he also goes about God's business. Vincent

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Have noticed this similarity in the past, and commented on it when they pop up together in readings.

The combination always makes me think of a quote from Strauss' Salome: "The secret of love is greater than the secret of death." This can be read two ways: either that love is more powerful that Death or that Love's power is more hidden than Death's.

...There's also something about both being messengers that are ineluctable and actively passive. Their similarities might be a reminder to avoid the cookie cutter readings of death/bad, emotions/good. They are almost sides of a coin; the arrival of love can be as ferocious and terrible as death and death can be as gentle and transformative as love.

Yes, the similarity between the RW 'Death' card and Durer's engraving of 'Knight, Death, and the Devil' is no coincidence.

It's no secret that the Waite/Smith Death card is based on Durer's engraving, but I hadn't looked at Durer's engraving for myself until now. Straight away I could see there was a massive similarity...too much... I'm an artist myself, and could see that these two images were related in a big way.

So I copied the image from Vincent's link, and using photoshop, laid a digital image of the Death card over the top of it...adjusted the transparency so I could see the two images together...and waddaya know!!!. I was very excited to find that the two images match perfectly. The Knight and Death, and the horses, match absolutley 100% in both proportion and posture (or as near 100% as needed to show this is a copy). Every detail, even Death's helmet is an exact match of the Knight's as far as it's proportions go...the shape has been altered a little, but the proportion of it, and the near perfect match of the visor, leave no doubt in my mind that this is a copy rather than just an influence.

Obviously some details were changed and some slight adjustments made, but clearly Durer's engraving was used for more than influence. The Death card is a perfect copy, using Durer's as a base to get everything in proportion...almost as though traced.

So I went on to look at Durer's other works... looking for other influence on Smith's cards. Durer created a massive amount of Paintings and graphics, it would take an age to trawl through the detail in all of them. I found these two paintings look very much like they influenced Smith's Emporer - http://www.abcgallery.com/D/durer/durer44.html

Fantastic topic this....

D.

Dstar said:

So I went on to look at Durer's other works... looking for other influence on Smith's cards. Durer created a massive amount of Paintings and graphics, it would take an age to trawl through the detail in all of them. I found these two paintings look very much like they influenced Smith's Emporer - http://www.abcgallery.com/D/durer/durer44.html

Fantastic topic this....

D.

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Very interesting thread to read through, in particular regarding the influence of Durer's works and the images in the RWS.

Dstar, with the link you have posted for the Emperor, I also immediately noticed an image element from the Thoth Emperor as well in the painting on the right - the two headed eagle, which can be seen on a shield at the feet of the Thoth Emperor. I know this is the RWS Forum but I just couldn't help mentioning it - and it makes me think that Durer's paintings may have influenced more than just Colman-Smith perhaps. I have attached a scan of the Thoth Emperor below.

CreativeFire

Brad Pitt ?

then the Knigth of Cup may be Joe Black from the Brad Pitt movie, obsessed for eat the delicious peanut marmalade just like a little boy? Forgiving his work for some little time? Sounds like a good clarifying image!
Am*