publishing rights about an idea

Luna-Ocean

Hi Guys

I have a friend who wants to submit her Tarot deck to a publisher but needs some advice on something first, it has taken her a long time to finish her creation and she decided to take on a book illustrator to help develop her ideas for a hand book to accompany the set of cards.

Now that everything has been created and finished her relationship with the illustrator have now disintegrated and they are barely on speaking terms they had a falling out over something but it was not relating to their work? my friend wants to go with a certain book publisher that are also interested in printing Tarot, she thinks her illustrator friend might not let her use what he has done for her even though it was a joint effort with both ideas and it was her card images illustrated in the book.

Can someone with experience about publishing explain what my friend should do for the best should she just submit her deck proposal, or does she have the right to use what was equally her idea for the book as well?

Thank you
 

AJ

this was a business proposition. If they didn't have a written signed agreement she needs to see an attorney. Anything we could offer would just cloud the issue and make matters worse I'd think.
 

ematuskey

Yeah--without a contract this becomes really sticky. She needs to talk to an attorney before she does anything, or run the risk of being sued by her former partner.
 

ematuskey

Although I will say, if the illustrator was just the book illustrator, and not the artist for the tarot art, she might be in better shape--just re-do the book without the illustrator's work, probably. But still, talk to an attorney if she wants to publish anything she worked on with another person.
 

Luna-Ocean

this was a business proposition. If they didn't have a written signed agreement she needs to see an attorney. Anything we could offer would just cloud the issue and make matters worse I'd think.

Hi AJ

As it stands right now the illustrator had no part of her deck just their work on the book together, she had initially wanted to create a LWB to go with her deck, i was told these publishers could also help with her doing a small booklet if they did take on her proposal.

I think going through a lawyer might be her only option to get some rights over the book as there doesn't seem to have been an agreement between them, this might turn out costly for her and i'm not sure if she is in a good financial situation at the moment to do this.
 

Luna-Ocean

Although I will say, if the illustrator was just the book illustrator, and not the artist for the tarot art, she might be in better shape--just re-do the book without the illustrator's work, probably. But still, talk to an attorney if she wants to publish anything she worked on with another person.

Hi ematuskey

I was thinking if they did like her proposal enough for the deck will the publishers offer to help with a LWB or would she need to have all the necessary ideas to do this, i'm sure she could spend time just putting together a rough out-let on a LWB using her card imagery and just use scan images of each card.
 

Cenozoic

She finished the deck, and wanted a book illustrator to help develop her ideas for her handbook, and but then her card illustrated images are the ones the book? Why have a book illustrator in the first place then?

For things not written in contract this is a tricky thing.

But to my basic knowledge about copyrights, is that ideas themselves can't be protected by rights. They are intangible things (can't be touched in the physical world), so they can't belong to anyone. The idea of a forest, is intangible and doesn't belong to anyone. But the "expression" of it can, like in the form of an artwork or photograph, since it's a physical object.

That's why physical things, like contracts, or other written documents, are important for doing business or when partnering up with someone. It makes these hazy lines more physical and real. I don't know if this was a joint authorship, or if he was a commission or work-for-hire type of thing.

But then copyrights are different for each country, so read up on it.

Here's some information about joint authorships:
http://www.britishcopyright.org/page/64/co-authors-or-joint-authors-of-books/


I'm not an attorney or anything myself (just someone who is semi-knowledgeable about copyrights), so if anything, she should go speak with an attorney.
 

Luna-Ocean

She finished the deck, and wanted a book illustrator to help develop her ideas for her handbook, and but then her card illustrated images are the ones the book? Why have a book illustrator in the first place then?

For things not written in contract this is a tricky thing.

But to my basic knowledge about copyrights, is that ideas themselves can't be protected by rights. They are intangible things (can't be touched in the physical world), so they can't belong to anyone. The idea of a forest, is intangible and doesn't belong to anyone. But the "expression" of it can, like in the form of an artwork or photograph, since it's a physical object.

That's why physical things, like contracts, or other written documents, are important for doing business or when partnering up with someone. It makes these hazy lines more physical and real. I don't know if this was a joint authorship, or if he was a commission or work-for-hire type of thing.

But then copyrights are different for each country, so read up on it.

Here's some information about joint authorships:
http://www.britishcopyright.org/page/64/co-authors-or-joint-authors-of-books/


I'm not an attorney or anything myself (just someone who is semi-knowledgeable about copyrights), so if anything, she should go speak with an attorney.

Hi cenozoic

He was a book illustrator/editor so possibly she wanted more help developing fresh ideas with the written text, yes some copyright information is what she needs to understand about thanks for the links on joint authors i shall pass this on to her.
 

rota

See a lawyer.

Depending on the agreement between writer and illustrator, the illustrations may simply have been work-for-hire, and the illustrator would have no further say in the matter. But that would have to have been agreed upon, written down, and signed by both parties.
 

Rhapsodin

I'm loath to comment but one answer would be to paraphrase the content of the book in a new book and be done with it. The tarot art is hers. If she must write a book about it then use the illustrator's one as a template but rewrite the text. There are sites like createspace.com that help with such things.

A nuisance but when people mix business with pleasure these things can happen. I know the symptoms. :)