What type of person is this....

dadsnook2000

For ncefafn

OK, thats a great start. Now, let's reduce all of that to a short simple statement such as, "A very sensitive and caring person who seeks to help others thru his/her work."

Let's consider adding to that statement by first deducing how Venus-conjunct-Mars and the square to the Moon in the 8th/Leo might work out. Once you have this Venus-Mars square Moon deciphered, we'll turn it into a statement to be added to the above statement. And, don't be worried if it doesn't fit with the above condensed statement. It will all work out in the end. Good luck, and thanks for stepping forward. Dave
 

ncefafn

I have to break it down further than that, and consider each aspect separately. I'm not good at synthesizing.

Moon square Venus suggests that what he needs from a woman emotionally and what he needs romantically are at odds. Moon in Leo suggests he needs praise, adoration, but also fun and playfulness. What he wants romantically is passion, depth, intensity, which is somewhat at odds with the flavor of Leo, but the potential for drama is there in both. The difference to me is light-hearted versus hot and heavy drama.

Moon square Mars suggests to me that he's got a firecracker temper. Hit a nerve, and he'll go off. Also, his need for emotional nurturing and security is at odds with his drive. He either risks too much or not enough.

Venus conjunct Mars says he's quite passionate, and probably great in the sack. :D He's sexy as all get out, with both of them in Scorpio. With Venus the ruler of the 7th house, being in the 11th house and conjunct his Mars, he probably will want to marry someone who supports or is already involved with his causes, and will definitely want it to be a friend.
 

dadsnook2000

Again, for ncefafn

The first thing to say is that you are indeed capable of synthesizing astro combinations. I've always operated on the theory that any big problem could be broken down into little ones that could be solved. This is what we are doing here. We don't get to that astrological stage where a "one minute scan of the chart gives us the whole picture" capability very easily --- if we ever do. Whether we ever can or not is beside the point; we shouldn't because it cheats us and the client of the dignity and respect they deserve. If the chart is the person, then we have to treat it nicely.

Your first statement about emotional and romantic needs are something that a woman would get immediately -- a great observation. See, you've taught me something valuable. That Mars/Scorpio square Moon/Leo is tricky to live with, I'm sure. Mars wants too much to control, to know how the partner values him. A sort of aggressive insecurity, almost. Constant affirmation.

When I look at Mars conjunct Venus I think of "personal poise", an attitude of confidence. The square to the Moon belies that somehow. Perhaps the praise has to be indirect or "coded" so as to assure but not condescend? This is a tough pattern to nail down all by itself.

The "temper" seems like a good observation in this case. Although it might be subject to specific situations being in play. It would seem that the extremes that are possible would leave him tentative in the early stages of a relationship --- less so as maturity is gained. I wonder what hard-and-fast patterns are adopted?

So, let's put another short statement in place! "This person is passionate and emotional but sometimes has difficulty in understanding the responses of others or his/her own reasons for personal conduct in relationships." Ncefafn, you are free to concoct your own statements if you wish.

We'll piece this together in a later posting. What strikes me now is that we should look at the basic nature of this person --- The Sun-Moon combination! Perhaps this will give us some additional insights so that we can be happy with balancing the observations we have made so far.

So, HOW WOULD YOU ASSESS THE SUN-MOON RELATIONSHIP IN THIS CHART? Once we have that nailed down, perhaps it will balance out what we have observed so far. Dave
 

ncefafn

Well, let's see. The Sun and Moon are trine, both in fire signs. This tells me that his need for fulfillment as a person is in harmony with his need for emotional security. What he does with his life and his emotional needs do not conflict. If anything, they support each other. The more fulfilled he is emotionally, the more free he is to go out and conquer the world. The more he fulfills his destiny as a human being, the more secure he feels inside. The Sun and Moon are central to one's identity, and this harmony suggests that despite the conflicts with his Venus/Mars, he's generally a happy person, well-rounded and well-balanced.
 

dadsnook2000

Sun & Moon . . . & Pluto!

Yes, the Sun and Moon are in trine relationship. If seen in terms of phase angles, the Moon is in the "honest man" phase wherein the subject tries to be open and direct in how they handle the nature of their character. Being a role model would be important to one's dignity and work.

HOWEVER, there is a fly in the ointment! Pluto. Pluto is at the mid-point of the Sun and Moon positions. As Ebertin notes in his Combination of Stellar Influences, "A soul torn by inner conflict, biased attitude or changed circumstances lead to critical phases of development in life or to separation from others." Not a comforting picture. And, over some 40 years, I've come to find that these interpretations can almost be taken literally.

Modern astrologers tend to link Pluto to Scorpio due to some of the characteristics attributed to that sign. This would represent a dark, sometimes morose or inner-focused person who is always trying to understand himself through the process of understanding others. This would fit with earlier statements about needing constant assurance.

So, what do we do next? I would suggest we play detective and examine the Saturn-Moon relationship. This combination points to the perceived restrictions of early family life, the factors which might carry over into adult life that could inhibit the freeing up of emotional and responsive patterns, problems with constraints from women --- the whole host of possible astro interpretations regarding these two key players in our charts. So, on to the next step. Am I tiring you out? We can ask for a substitution here. Dave
 

214red

This discussion is very enjoyable to read, i hope it is to partake too:)

Thanks to ncefafn and dadsnook2000 for livening the thread up, i like the way Dave you have helped drill down into the nub of the issue.
 

dadsnook2000

Drilling down, yes !

Drilling down is a good term for what is happening here. Note that I have not suggested any "final" attributes or characteristics for this person. The chart is actually quite complex, although that is not obvious at first glance. The chart and person is complex. Instead of ending up taking one side or the other side of conflicting patterns, I often find that the chart/person finds ways of blending or alternating between one side of their nature and the other side. This is particularly true when we find trines and sextiles present.

So, 214red, are you now volunteering to pick up for ncefafn with the Saturn-Moon situation? Dave
 

214red

dadsnook2000 said:
Drilling down is a good term for what is happening here. Note that I have not suggested any "final" attributes or characteristics for this person. The chart is actually quite complex, although that is not obvious at first glance. The chart and person is complex. Instead of ending up taking one side or the other side of conflicting patterns, I often find that the chart/person finds ways of blending or alternating between one side of their nature and the other side. This is particularly true when we find trines and sextiles present.

So, 214red, are you now volunteering to pick up for ncefafn with the Saturn-Moon situation? Dave
the reason i picked this chart was because i know him well, but also studied his charts as one of my case studies so its no point me adding to the discussion until its finished and i feedback.

however it would be a good idea if this was a trend and people every once in awhile posted a chart for us to look at, and as you say drill down, then i will happily join in!
 

dadsnook2000

A broken chain ?

Well, the pleasure of being in a class and of teaching a class is that there is participation, give and take, growing understanding, a feeling of accomplishment at the end of each session. Here on the AT Astrology forum it is also a question of sharing and growing in our understanding and doing so in a "safe" environment. We don't see harshness, or insensitive put-downs here.

So, we are in search of participation. If we don't find it here, how will we find it in 214red's postings on the basics of astrology? It's one thing to discuss the effects of Mercury in the 2nd house --- who knows if what you say is right or just a whacky opinion or part right? Here we have a chart, a real person. These are real planets, houses, signs, aspects. What we come up with here, right or wrong or just a bit off-key, can be compared to reality.

Not only that, we are being introduced to two study components that you will not often find on line. First, we are dealing with the natural complexity of conflicting patterns and the problem that ncefafn referred to -- synthesis. There is nothing more exciting then to put the basics together and mixing them well to achieve a blending.

Second, we are exposed to the thinking processes of those more experienced in looking at charts. We see that conflicting assumptions are immediately focused upon. What else is behind this conflict? How does this help or hinder the person in the chart? If A doesn't fit with B and if C isn't understood relative to either of them, what do I look for next? You see, it isn't that there is one way to read a chart. Curiousity can take us on many paths --- and that is OK. But, there has to be a "curiosity factor" in each participant.

So, again, I ask, "Who wants to help explore what the relationship between Saturn and the Moon means in this chart in terms of how early life experiences and up-bringing and parental influence might have shaped this person such that there are now some conflicts to be worked out? For the benefit of others, I would not like to see "thundering silence". Dave
 

ncefafn

I don't want to hog the whole discussion, but if no one else raises their hand, I'll pop back in and give my take on the Moon/Saturn thing.