Intensive Deck Study (IDS) Support Lounge ~ Part IV

Cat* said:

As I read this, I'm once again struck by how little I know about my Ancestors (further back than my grandparents, two of which I never even met anyway). It may be a German/European thing again (at least of those of us whose Ancestors didn't migrate to another country 1-2 generations back), to not think much about who came before us because it's likely our Ancestors have lived more or less in the same place (or so we assume). To overgeneralize my impression: "non-Native" (for lack of a better term) Americans/Canadians/Australians seem to be much more conscious of their Ancestors because the migration often only took place very few generations ago. Or maybe that's just me who feels so disconnected from her family history... *shrug* I feel like my family aren't really "my people" and that there's no actual spiritual tradition for me to claim as "genealogically mine."

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Hmm, you know, two of my grandparents were born in Europe, one in Croatia and one in Sicily, and the other two were first generation Americans, one with family from Russia, and one from Hungary. So I'm only 2nd 1/2 generation American, with ancestors from four different corners of Europe, and here I've been in Japan since I was 21, so I've also been having a difficult time with these sorts of questions. How important is one's ancestry really? How much of a difference is there between genetic ancestry and the ancestry of your spiritual memory (if that's a thing)? Why was I drawn to live here in Japan? How long do you have to spend somewhere before you're more a member of your chosen society than the one you were born in, if ever?

The Haindl mixes British and Nordic tradition, Egyptian, Native American, and Indian traditions, which sounds overdone and unrelated, but you know what? The more I study each of them individually, the more they seem to blend into one another, and the more similarities seem to arise between them. Hermann himself really experienced a lot of this; he lived on the Lakota reservation, he studied sitar in India, he hiked through Egypt. I wonder:

To what degree is experience related to identity? And to what extent is a identity a question of how others view us, rather than how we view ourselves?

If I were to become a full citizen of Japan, live my whole life here, and speak nothing but Japanese, by the time I die, the Japanese would never for one moment see me as Japanese. Its simply impossible to ever be fully accepted as one of their own. In Japan, ancestry is the whole of identity. And that's easy enough for them, as 99.99% of Japanese citizens are 100% Japanese genetically, going back thousands upon thousands of years.

But what does that make those of us, like myself, who are of mixed origin? I don't feel the least bit related to the countries of my grandparents or great-grandparents. (Living in Croatia would feel a lot more foreign than living in Japan does) Nor do I feel, growing up in NYC (not exactly the heartland of the USA) terribly American.

I can't help but make the connection that a lack of cultural identity probably plays a large part in why we choose decks like the Haindl or the Greenwood, etc., that question identity, and that force us to consider our cultural being.

Cat* said:

I'm also so new to spirituality in general that I don't even know if such struggles are part of everyone's path at some point or if it's something extraordinary. Or if that's even an important question. Half of the time, I don't even know what's wrong, only that I believe it has something to do with a spiritual searching. I feel as if I'm madly stumbling around in the dark, not knowing where to turn to find any sense of orientation.

This is all still a big puzzle that I'm trying to solve (with very mixed feelings along the way), so I hope I haven't been rambling on off-topic for too long. I hope you don't mind that I put this sort of stuff into the IDS thread even if it's not strictly on topic. I wouldn't know where else to put this (Spirituality? Chat? And how could I open my own thread if I don't even know what my question is?), and you seem to be nice people who won't laugh at me for being spiritually confused. (Hey, yukinkoicy and emmsma, do you think we could/should get together?)

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I'm also incredibly new to spirituality, and have been discussing just this topic with a few IDSers recently. I grew up in a household where I was taught that only the visibile is real. My parents are atheists to the extreme, so starting on this journey has been very difficult for me in the sense that I seem to be constantly fighting with myself to be able to believe in anything. Every sentence that comes out of me about spiritual matters seems to start with, "This is silly, but..." or "I don't actually believe this but what do you think about..."

But maybe its time to start learning how to drop those sentence starters and allow myself (ourselves!) to really believe in something.

And I do hope that none of this is off topic. If it weren't for my Haindl studies and your Greenwood studies, and so on, I wouldn't be thinking these things or having this conversation.

If nothing else, we should consider ourselves lucky to have found a group of people setting off on similar journeys to our own.

Cat* said:

It's a German idiom that means that there is one thing that runs through all the parts of something and connects them, even though it may not be immediately visible/obvious.

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How would you say this in German? I'll ask my sis if she's used it/heard it (she lives in Stuttgart). I'm a foreign language nerd, language nerd in general, and I love this!

Cat* said:

Instead, I look for bits and pieces of both family and spirituality in many places, patching them together into something that slowly starts making a little sense to me as "mine." I want to belong to both a familial (not necessarily biological, though) and a spiritual tradition, but at the same time I often feel that I don't fit in anywhere. I want (and need) to be a part of something bigger, and at the same time I want (and need) to be an independent individual who can move freely to where she feels drawn without being held back by too-limiting commitments. This often makes me feel very torn between seemingly opposing forces. How can I be both a pack or herd animal and a loner?

I'm also so new to spirituality in general that I don't even know if such struggles are part of everyone's path at some point or if it's something extraordinary. Or if that's even an important question. Half of the time, I don't even know what's wrong, only that I believe it has something to do with a spiritual searching. I feel as if I'm madly stumbling around in the dark, not knowing where to turn to find any sense of orientation.

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*right hand patting my chest, head bent, left hand palm out high in the air*
Can I get a witness?!

You are definitely not alone in this struggle. Same same same...wanting to maintain individuality, authentic sense of what I call one's "essential self" yet yearning for a sangha, a community.

Not sure if there is a thread on this specifically, and this has somewhat to do with my IDS because all of these questions and issues are suddenly coming up for me during the IDS (hmm, ancillary benefits?) but I am so interested in the connection b/t one's affinity for a particular deck and their geneology/ethnology.

We talk of a "connection" with our decks. How many and on what levels does this desire operate? The beauty of a deck captures my attention. Then I realize, on many decks, there are no people who look like me or remind me of my geneology/ethnology.

This raised awareness attracts me to decks that have a very universal appeal because that is important to me personally and I feel a deeper connection to it.

By not choosing a deck with these qualities, am I denying a part of myself? Maybe, maybe not, but these are the things I'm thinking about now. As I dive into a deck, do I find that it's not speaking to me on the very deepest level, while it does on a superficial level? Is it a reason for me to keep or lose the deck? Does my ultimate connection depend on a deck's ability to speak to me on every level or can I forgive it, be flexible, and not take the whole thing so darn seriously?

But then that is me not thinking critically.

P.S. STILL sticking with Univeral Fantasy though I'm on a brief hiatus while I figure out my goals.

zan_chan said:

I can't help but make the connection that a lack of cultural identity probably plays a large part in why we choose decks like the Haindl or the Greenwood, etc., that question identity, and that force us to consider our cultural being.

But maybe its time to start learning how to drop those sentence starters and allow myself (ourselves!) to really believe in something.

And I do hope that none of this is off topic. If it weren't for my Haindl studies and your Greenwood studies, and so on, I wouldn't be thinking these things or having this conversation.

If nothing else, we should consider ourselves lucky to have found a group of people setting off on similar journeys to our own.

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Yes yes yes.

And I neglected to read your post completely before I posted mine about cultural identity. But I see many of us are on a similar wavelength. And I breathe a sigh of relief.

Reading all these posts about the Greenwood and its devotees' discovery of ancestral heritage makes me feel very alone But that's okay, because that's where my path lies, striving to the summit of my own Godhood. More and more, I've been realising how *lucky* I was to find the Blake right when I did. It's taken a couple of months, but I'm coming to see that it's just so seamlessly part of my individuation on my road to Thelemic development that it can only be confirmation, that my Will is coming clear, in tiny little pieces and as an undercurrent.

A "red thread"

(On the subject of threads, Cat* - have you heard of a French singer/songwriter called Camille? She put out an album a few years ago called Le Fil - literally, The Thread, I'm told. It's underlain by a single note that runs through the entire album and links the songs. Sadly, I'm no French-speaker so I can't tell if there's a link in themes between the songs.)

So, anyway.

The last couple of days I've done my daily readings but not much else in terms of direct Blake study, despite my resolution that I would But this is because I'm coming at it from the magickal connection, finding a more solid grounding there. I'm discovering that it makes my sometimes shaky connection to the Blake much stronger and I'm more confident in my perception of the images and concepts conveyed by Blake's work in general.

Housekeeping:

emmaleigh has PM'd me and asked to be removed from the list. Thanks for the PM, emmaleigh - perhaps we'll see you at a later date

Asbestos Mango - yes, I'll change your deck. When you say you've "finished" with the Archeon, what do you mean? Was it an amicable parting, or did you guys have a tiff?

BLOGGERS: As I understand the forum rules, we are discouraged from posting blog links in posts mainly because it directs traffic away from this site. Please please please don't get me in the proverbial by posting blog links - put them in your profile! If you've got another website already in your profile, just put the new one as text in your bio section and people can paste it into their browser's address bar.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled programming

\m/ Kat

I'm really loving the discussion about spirituality and how the cards/IDS is helping people focus in on it. I'm also interested in the link to ancestry, and the discussion involved. It makes me wonder - and this is off-topic, and so I'll go over to the Spirituality forum to start a thread; feel free to join me! - whether ancestry matters at all. By which I mean, incidentally, a recognition or naming of ancestry. For some of us, after all, unless we've done a detailed genealogy, our true 'ancestry' is unknown.

Anyway, this is off-topic, so I'll say no more (and head to a different forum). But I am interested that, for so many of us, our IDS is intertwining with our spiritual journeys. My Trees have given me one universal truth, which is my starting point; but they're Trees. They have one perspective. Wherever they are, whatever species of tree they are, they know only one thing: they need the earth beneath them and the cycle of the seasons around them, and that's it. There's no flavour to them - it's true Universality. It's the source of their depth and their profundity. Maybe I'm not ready for them yet: I'm like Zan, I suppose, in that any conversation about spirituality I have is modified by conditionals. My intellect interferes: but it isn't true, questioning intellect. It's bruised, proud and cynical intellect. Meh.

So I'm fascinated reading posts by people who are in the right place, so to speak, and have found the deck that is challenging them in all the right ways and moving them into the next part of the spiritual journey.

Wendywu said:

I feel that I am not putting in enough Study in this IDS, and my renewal is to:

(a) Find and visit a local small forge (I know of a couple of very old but non-working forges that are local, and I am sure I can find an actual working forge) - and read up more on what's involved in their work so that I can get a handle on the mental feel of blacksmithing.....
(b) Research for images of the plants and creatures drawn on the cards, and also for their characteristics.

I already use this deck for everything except one reading per month (I have a once a month playaway with the RED Exchange).

Aside from those active studies, my form of study is in contemplation of the card for a few hours, and then later meditating on its image in my mind, and seeing where I go with that. And this suits me and is what I will stick with.

This year I would like to increase the number of readings I do with the deck, which is about five a week at the moment and I will actively seek to do this.

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It suddenly struck me that one huge omission on my part has been the lack of daily draws, which I think would help me. I am getting along well with reading Ironwing for others, but don't do so well on personal readings. In my defence I point out that I never have done much in the way of personal readings... but I think I ought to start.

I'm gonna start slow, with one daily draw that I will consider as it applied to the day before. In a few months I will switch to considering the daily draw as it might apply to the next day. I shall be interested to see how I get on with this. Like Teomat I might post in the daily draw thread as having told myself "I will post", it then becomes an act of self discipline to do so. After a while it becomes a habit and a pleasure.


Oh yes - the local forge. I found the ideal forge but owing to the adverse weather conditions I cannot get to it! It is in a local village called Moretonhampstead, up on the approaches to Dartmoor. The village won't be all that accessible at the moment and anyway, we can't get the car down our road which the police have blocked off to through traffic...... maybe next month

I'd love to see a forge I envy you. Can I come?

Re: Daily spreads - shameless plug for my favourite daily spread. It is better, IMO, than a single card because it gives the opportunity to relate the cards to one another (via EDs if that's your thing, or in other ways as well). It's also proactive and avoids being predictive, which is something I take seriously. Sometimes prediction comes through in my readings, but I prefer to keep things about "now" and how people/I can make things better with what is extant.

\m/ Kat

Oh, teomat and wendywu, I hope you don't mind me jumping on this Daily Draws thread idea. I've basically quit reading for myself recently, too. So this idea of self-discipline seems like a good one. And I do tend to enjoy having cards relate to one another (one card draws usually annoy me-- like, "Yeah, 7 Cups. So?"), so perhaps I'll try using Kat's spread to do so. I've never been a fan of P/P/F spreads because I could never ascertain how far in the past or future, or when exactly present is supposed to mean. (What can I say, I'm a sucker for exactness!), so having more distinct positions looks good.

Perhaps I'll start that up later on as my day is ending...

Thanks for the idea!

I pull a daily card from my IDS deck: I don't have a question, and it's not supposed to be predictive. Rather, I think of it as a 'Focus' card: an energy to keep present with me throughout the day. Sometimes it ends up being a card that helps me with specific issues that come up through the day; sometimes it ends up being a card that makes me think of the bigger picture. Either way, it saves me having to interpret it immediately: I keep it mentally present as the day progresses and refer to it as things occur.

I did used to do Kat's preferred draw, too. I'll second her enthusiasm! (I just found myself running out of time for it).

DaisyDragonfly said:

I pull a daily card from my IDS deck: I don't have a question, and it's not supposed to be predictive. Rather, I think of it as a 'Focus' card: an energy to keep present with me throughout the day. Sometimes it ends up being a card that helps me with specific issues that come up through the day; sometimes it ends up being a card that makes me think of the bigger picture. Either way, it saves me having to interpret it immediately: I keep it mentally present as the day progresses and refer to it as things occur.

I did used to do Kat's preferred draw, too. I'll second her enthusiasm! (I just found myself running out of time for it).

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Daisy - I'd forget it! I know I would... Once the day gets going at the office all I think about until I emerge, bleary eyed into the world is the mish-mash of accounts, research, and and transactions that form my working life. I don't even think about personal problems (it's great for really losing yourself in)...

So - I'll go for Kat's spread. Limited to two sentences per card (maximum three if I have to) to avoid the time problem. Where do I post this deathless prose? You gonna post yours Zan?

Yep Kat, you can come visit the forge (which has been a working forge for centuries) - I'd love to have you along . I'll take piccies and everything....