Thank you for your thoughts! I'd have been surprised if I had been the only one who wonders about such things. It's just that it doesn't seem to be an issue for my friends here - at least we don't talk about it.Bat Chicken said:
I believe you're right here: a lot of it is a longing for a past that seemed less confusing, not just spiritually. You knew who you were from the family you were born into. You didn't have a staggering amount of potential paths your life could take. There was much less social or physical mobility (compared to now), and I think people spent a lot less time wondering about who they were. I can see how that must have made some things a lot easier. Then again, it must have been much harder to do things differently, and there must have been much more pressure to conform. I mean, if my 'world' often feels restrictive to me now, I can't even imagine how unhappy I would have been if I had ended up in circumstances that were much more restrictive and unflexible than the ones I was born into (and currently live in).Bat Chicken said:
So I guess the simplicity, clarity, and security also came with a price...As I'm reading this, I'm surprised by how difficult it is for me to get this when it comes to spirituality, when I have no problem at all understanding (and practicing!) this when it comes to all sorts of culture and human interaction. What makes me think I need any 'original' tradition? And what makes me think something like that even exists in the first place? I get it with music, and clothes, and literature, and relationship models, and sexuality, and whatever else - why do I think it's any different when it comes to spirituality?Bat Chicken said:
Thank you for calling me courageous, and also for the hugs! I don't feel very courageous myself, though, just in need of talking about this with people who might understand and maybe reply something useful (which has happened, and I'm very grateful to have a place like this where I can find people like you).Bat Chicken said:No laughing here, only admiration for your courage in sharing this. It is good to know I am not alone too!
EDIT: Wanted to add some *HUGS*!
Well, if ancestry was irrelevant, we'd probably not think about it so much.zan_chan said:
But maybe this part of your post would better be answered in DaisyDragonfly's Ancestry thread, so I'll put my thoughts there.I believe that experience plays a huge part in identity, and I also believe that how others view us has a major impact of how we view ourselves. I don't mean that experience directly determines identity, though, but if I consider how often important experiences have changed an actual identity label I wear, I can't help but thinking there often is a relation (sometimes, of course, the realization is that your identity does NOT change with your experience, but that may still serve as a confirmation of said identity you otherwise wouldn't have had). The same is true for others' view of us and how our identity may change or not change in reaction to that.zan_chan said:
I'm thinking that context plays a huge role here. I usually don't think of myself as "a German." It's only when I am in international spaces (like AT) that I realize what about me might be "generally German." I also realize what things about me are "European," by comparing myself to (mostly) Americans and Australians. In German contexts, though, I identify much more with actual places/areas where I have lived (and therefore have a direct history) and/or feel drawn to. For example, my Germany is a lot different from, say, Aulruna's Germany (and in some regards it's very similar, too). Therefore, my location says "Northern Germany" rather than "Germany."zan_chan said:
For me, that certainly has been one of the reasons why I picked the Greenwood, even if that may have been a rather unconscious influence.zan_chan said:
I so know what you're talking about! While others have problems reconciling a heavily Christian upbringing with their interest in tarot, I constantly have to convince myself to suspend my disbelief. I'm still majorly skeptic of many of the experiences other people write about (not you, Mi-Shell!zan_chan said:
). That doesn't mean that I believe those people are making things up (although I remain convinced that not everything that people write about spirituality - especially on the internet - is actually true), but it does mean that I often can't make up my mind whether to believe something or not. When I believe something "unbelievable", it's often because I consider someone trustworthy in general. And if I trust a person, I will take their most incredible stories about their most incredible experiences without a hint of doubt or disbelief. I'll also readily believe in things I've personally experienced/seen happen. I'm also trying to question my initial "bah, humbug!" reaction whenever I catch myself at it. I've become very willing to decide that I simply don't know enough about something to have an opinion about its truth. Other people usually don't need my doubt on top of everyone else's unless I have really good reasons to share any hesitations.Oh yes! It's so incredibly good to have a place to talk about such things, no matter how silly one feels about them, or how incredible or outrageous they seem. Thank you, everyone, for being a part of this!zan_chan said:
You crack me up.zan_chan said:But thanks everyone for agreeing to help with my email. I'm considering telling him straight off that I'm not planning to kill him and that I'm just a really big fan of his work. Germans are an open and straightforward sort of people, right?
I'd be happy to be your German stalking-factor consultant, if you need one. For now, I agree with what others have said already: to get an email that starts with "I'm not out to kill you" doesn't sound like a very comforting experience... He also won't suspect you of being a crazy stalker just because you tell him you love his deck and are generally interested in his work and its influences. After all, he must have put up his professional website and published his email address on it for a reason!You'd say something is or has a "roter Faden" (red thread). You can also say that you lost your red thread, like when you forgot what you wanted to get at in your talking. Or that something (like a resume or a novel) lacks a red thread (i.e. you can't see the connection between the parts). These are literal translations of what you'd say in German. Does that answer your question? Otherwise just PM me for clarification.KafkasGhost said:
Now that's a cultural reference you'll have to explain to me.KafkasGhost said:
Where does it come from, and what does it mean?Now I'm wondering if that could be compared to the question of gender and sexuality in a deck... I have a hard time with decks that constantly set up gender as polar opposites, with men always in one narrowly defined role and women always in another (with the exception of the Housewives, which is so campy overall that I don't mind). I can't think of a particularly annoying example of this right now, but the World Spirit and the DruidCraft both show a nice variety of humans and thus work very well for me in this regard. If a deck has gender-neutral or gender-ambiguous illustrations (like the Greenwood has in large parts), that's a definite plus for me. While I can certainly read a male figure on a card as a female person in real life, or a heterosexual pairing on a card as a homosexual one in real life (and vice versa) - after all, that's what I do with much of the culture around me anyway! - sometimes I'd still like to see some more acknowledgement of human variety in my tarot decks (not just of gender and sexuality, but also of shapes, colors, and sizes). But that's a topic that has been discussed here on AT quite a few times already, so I won't go into more detail.KafkasGhost said:
I don't think you are denying a part of yourself when you pick a deck that doesn't show people who look like you or seem to be from the same cultural/ethnic background. Do we deny our humanity when we read with animal or fairy decks? Do we deny that we live in the 21st century when we read with medieval or other historical decks, or even the RWS which is already 100 years old, too?KafkasGhost said:By not choosing a deck with these qualities, am I denying a part of myself? Maybe, maybe not, but these are the things I'm thinking about now. As I dive into a deck, do I find that it's not speaking to me on the very deepest level, while it does on a superficial level? Is it a reason for me to keep or lose the deck? Does my ultimate connection depend on a deck's ability to speak to me on every level or can I forgive it, be flexible, and not take the whole thing so darn seriously?
But then that is me not thinking critically.
Yes, as several others have also observed, the IDS seems to trigger all sorts of more general thoughts about our choice of decks, our habits of using them (or not), and our spirituality (if tarot is indeed spiritual to us). I think that's exactly why an IDS is such a rewarding process: you get to ask yourself a lot of important questions and hopefully find some answers to them as you go along. Even if your answer turns out to be a temporary one, or if it is a firm and definite "I don't know."DaisyDragonfly said:
Just for the sake of playing Devil's advocate here: They are, however, all broadleaf trees, and they seem to grow in a landscape that looks European to me. I assume there are also parts of America that look similarly, but still: it's not a universal landscape at all, nor are they universal trees.DaisyDragonfly said:
Never heard of her, but I'll check her out - the concept sounds fascinating. Most of the French I learned at school is sadly forgotten, but maybe her lyrics are online so I can try and figure out some of them (or I'll ask my mother who is much better at French than I ever was).thorhammer said:
I can highly recommend it, too! Predictive/morning daily spreads never worked for me, so I switched all my daily readings (if I do them) to the evenings and use that as an opportunity to reflect on my day. Makes a ton more sense to me!thorhammer said:
I'm exactly the same! And yes, it's another reason to do the daily draws in the evenings.Wendywu said:
Can I join the party? As a second-best alternative I'd love to see your pics, though.Wendywu said:Yep Kat, you can come visit the forge (which has been a working forge for centuries) - I'd love to have you along
Oh, please do share your learning process with us! You never know who else may profit from it. Personally, I love to hear about all the different IDSs, even if I don't respond to all of them (my posts are huge enough as it is!)yirabeth said:
A drum oracle? I'm intrigued! How does that work?Mi-Shell said:
Cat* said:
Just for the sake of playing Devil's advocate here: They are, however, all broadleaf trees, and they seem to grow in a landscape that looks European to me. I assume there are also parts of America that look similarly, but still: it's not a universal landscape at all, nor are they universal trees.
Which is not meant to take away the tiniest bit of your feeling that the Trees are universal.
They are all northern hemisphere trees, that's for sure. To be honest, that's as far as I go. I'm rubbish at naming species and subspecies. I can identify fir trees (but not the specific kinds), and oak trees and, er... Oh, birch. And that's it. And, in that case, even with my statement about the universality of trees, I was answering my own questions about the significance of land. The only trees I know are the long-lasting, deep-rooted kind that you find in the British Isles. Even in London, we've got trees that are older than people; that sense of longevity and the attendant perspective influences my sense of them. And, consequently, what sort of message I would get from them.It's not like I haven't known this before...Wendywu said:That's a big realisation to come to Cat*. Understanding this and living life accordingly will bring a great deal more calm into your heart. A great way to start a new yearCat* said:
But what counts is that I remembered it now and that I have made a decision to change my life accordingly. It is indeed a great way to start a new year. Thanks for the validation.SolSionnach said:
I guess my realization is not as much of a surprise for anyone but me. (Just go and ask my Beloved who patiently sat with me through my confusion and waited until I arrived at the conclusion myself!)There is a tiny picture of her on her website if you'd like to look at one.Mi-Shell said:
As SolSionnach has already said over in the "Greenwood - what else" thread: Knowing that sure explains the enourmous presence of Deer in the Greenwood deck!Mi-Shell said:
I immediately thought of the Queen of Arrows here. No matter that I read just yesterday that Reindeer are the only female Deer who have antlers - the Queen of Arrows still feels female to me (and not just because she's called a queen).Mi-Shell said:
Thank you so much for sharing your journey/vision, Mi-Shell!Mi-Shell said:
I know what you mean, Kat (see my above post where I talk about my skepticism!). But indeed, from all I know about Mi-Shell, I have no reason at all to distrust her or dismiss what she experienced, no matter how incredible, unbelievable and crazy it may sound to some.thorhammer said:
Me too.thorhammer said:
Thank you, this works!Cat* said:You'd say something is or has a "roter Faden" (red thread). You can also say that you lost your red thread, like when you forgot what you wanted to get at in your talking. Or that something (like a resume or a novel) lacks a red thread (i.e. you can't see the connection between the parts). These are literal translations of what you'd say in German. Does that answer your question? Otherwise just PM me for clarification.
(By the way, my Beloved used to live in Stuttgart, too, but I've only been on the Autobahn near it.)
Cat* said:Now that's a cultural reference you'll have to explain to me.
Cat* said:
Cat* said:I don't think you are denying a part of yourself when you pick a deck that doesn't show people who look like you or seem to be from the same cultural/ethnic background. Do we deny our humanity when we read with animal or fairy decks? Do we deny that we live in the 21st century when we read with medieval or other historical decks, or even the RWS which is already 100 years old, too?
I also don't think that literally finding "people like you" in your deck's illustrations is a necessity for becoming a great reader. We have to learn the language of our decks, which sometimes may seem effortlessly easy, but which usually makes us stumble and doubt ourselves at one point or another, too. I don't believe in instant complete understanding of any deck. Very likely, your ability to read your deck is mostly a result of the time and effort you put into learning to read it. A certain kind of imagery or a connection to a spiritual or ethnic tradition you feel close to already may make that learning process easier, but you still can't skip the learning part if depth in understanding your deck is what you want. My two Euro cents, and your mileage may vary.
Cat* said:
