Intensive Deck Study (IDS) Support Lounge ~ Part IV

I need some support here...

Today is officially the longest time I've ever exclusively used one deck for reading and studying. However I'm really feeling the need to buy another one (the Hermetic Tarot). It's REALLY appealing to me, both as a deck I could read and also study. However I feel that I would be betraying my original goals by switching.

I've made good progress journalling and posting my daily draws, but I feel I'll never really understand the intentions behind the RWS (i.e what Waite and Smith actually intended) as there's so little GENUINE info on this deck. 99% of the books on this deck are purely hypothetical opinions on what the authors think the symbols suggest.

I want to know for certain what each symbol means. I really want a deck that I can learn inside out - that has relevant and researchable info. The Hermetic seems to be a good contender for this.

I don't want to switch, but I don't want to have that nagging feeling that I'm not really understanding the deck as well as I should be.

Can someone remind me (or give me kick up the backside) why I should continue with my deck and not switch?

Sorry, but I can't deter you. Stick with your deck, obtain the Hermetic and use it as a parallel study tool. The Hermetic cards are stuffed full with symbolism and they will add further light to your study of your present deck.

If you fall head over heals with the Hermetic, then its a different story .

I will tell you this: The Hermetic opens doors to more esoteric decks. It was this deck that brought me to the VIA.

Good luck!

Teomat - do whatever you think your heart will be in. I can't do something if my heart isn't in it. My attraction to the Blake and the Greenwood is much for the same reasons you offer. I know nothing about the Hermetic, but if it is in some way parallel to the RWS or will compliment the study, try doing both. You are upping the challenge, but, if you are interested, you'll stick with it! I come from the "have your cake and eat it too" school...
I don't know if that helps or makes it worse!

~~~~~~~~~
I don't do "Daily Draws" so far in this IDS, just a few times a week. It takes me days to figure out what the cards are saying. I am horrible reading for myself! LOL! The Greenwood turned me for a loop when I tried Kat's 3 card spread. I am baffled by the 9 of Cups being what I need to leave behind... I think this deck is messing with me!

teomat said:

I've made good progress journalling and posting my daily draws, but I feel I'll never really understand the intentions behind the RWS (i.e what Waite and Smith actually intended) as there's so little GENUINE info on this deck. 99% of the books on this deck are purely hypothetical opinions on what the authors think the symbols suggest.

I want to know for certain what each symbol means.

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Understanding that I come from much the same place that you do, is it really all that important to understand the intentions behind a deck or is it more important to form your own relationship with the deck? If flowers are intended to represent beauty and joy in the deck but you have horrible allergies and you cringe whenever you see flowers, whose intention is more important? You're forming your own relationship with the deck. So regardless of what the author and/or artist's intentions were, I'm of the school that believes that your reactions to the deck are more important than the intentions for the deck. Yes, when possible, you can let the author/artist's intentions inform your relationship with the deck, but they shouldn't dictate your relationship with it.

If you have problems with authority and rule, then it's OK to view the Emperor and/or Hierophant a little more negatively than other people do. And if freedom and abandon are more important to you, then you might view the Devil a little more positively than other people do. And both of those things are OK.

Another thing to remember is that unless you're dealing with a self-published deck with a self-published book, you can never be sure that you're actually getting the author/artist's original intent for anything. Artwork can be changed and text can be edited from the time it leaves the author/artist's hands til the time it reaches your hands.

And symbols can (and do!) mean different things to different people. And many an artist has put in a symbol either without realizing its importance/meaning or realizing that it has an alternate meaning. The recent discussion on the 6-pointed star above the Devil's head in the Tarot of White Cats is a perfect example of that.

teomat said:

I don't want to switch, but I don't want to have that nagging feeling that I'm not really understanding the deck as well as I should be.

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I can't let this one pass. There is no one way that you (or anyone else) should be understanding any given deck. You and I can both be using the same deck with diametrically opposed understandings of it and still give excellent readings with it. In that case when the deck wants us to understand the same interpretation, it will show us different cards.

Rodney

Hi, teomat

First up - the Hermetic's not going anywhere any time soon. It's easily obtainable and will be still in three months. Or six. There's no hurry, and one thing I got from reading between the lines of your post was that you're feeling a sense of urgency. Toss that, coz it's playing you false.

Secondly - good points have been made about doing what feels right and not knowing what the artist/author intended in the first place. I'm not going to reiterate that because it's not my path; I'm not gentle. So my take on your situation is that you need to employ more imaginative study methods if you want to get inside Uncle Artie's head. You need to understand the era that he lived in, and study things like Rosicrucianism and the Golden Dawn approach to Tarot, in conjunction with the Pictorial Key to the Tarot. I know, I know, it's crap . . . or is it? Artie was, unlike my mate Aleister, very impressed by the thought of knowing something that others didn't, and as such, when he wrote anything it was truth pared down to its blandest possible state and veiled in three or four or more layers of equivocation in order to *hide* the initiatory secrets. He was trying to keep to what he felt were his magical oaths. I'm sure that some of our more bookish member can recommend you a great symbol dictionary, one that recounts the significance of a symbol through the ages, so you can put the symbols in the RWS in context. Things like Freemasonry and the language of flowers come into the RWS. Pixie was a stage artist - so the feel of the cards comes from her background in theatre.

I think that using the RWS and Hermetic alongside one another will give you great cause for confusion, though both are based on Book T (to a degree). (Oh, yeah - Book T . . . but RWS is so derived away from it that it might puzzle you more than enlighten.) Give the RWS some time. Hell, I hate the thing, always have, but I'm thinking of giving it a good hard chance now that I've got the PCS Commemorative deck . . . maybe invest in that instead of the Hermetic for now, to revamp your enthusiasm for it? It's an amazing reproduction, and the companion material could really give you something to work with.

\m/ Kat

thorhammer said:

G'day, Simsy Yes, the Book of the Law is a bit confronting, isn't it? Have you been reading along with the Study Group we've got going on? It might take some catching up on, as we're halfway into Chapter II, but it'd be more than worth your while to make the effort, if you're serious about getting some understanding of the Book of the Law. ravenest, Grigori (formerly similia, the mod) and Aeon418 especially have added some amazing information.

I wouldn't say that pursuit of Liber AL is necessary to study the Thoth, unless you want to understand its Thelemic leanings. I'm not claiming to be an expert, but I love to talk Thelema and Thoth, so if you have any questions please feel free to PM me

\m/ Kat

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Hi kat,

I think for me personally the book of laws is somewhere i can get a feel for what Crowley had in mind with the deck, the underlying themes if you will as it related to the Thelema having said that i agree with you it's not completely necessary to Pursue the study of the Liber AL but for me i am obessed with background information on things, the hows and whatfores if you will

and yes i am a gutton for punishment too Lol

I guess we all have to start somewhere dont we?

Simsy

I guess so Just don't get bogged down in it - it's hard going The study group really is helpful, and we're all fine if you want to bump the older threads. If you have questions regarding a verse, just ask in the relevant thread, or respond to the discussion, and we're happy to get going on it again

\m/ Kat

I'm feeling a little victimized by the de-enabling thread today. All in good fun, sure, but less so the clearer it becomes that there's only one guy out there who might stand up for my poor deck-- ME!

I just keep telling myself that Hermann or Rachel would probably say something wise about how it shouldn't bother me that some (a number) of people don't get it. And meanwhile, it's been in print a whole lot longer than a lot of other decks, so someone out there must like it...

Support me, support lounge, before I do something rash and Ciro the de-enabling thread. (you know you've made it when your name becomes a verb...)

Zan I like the Haindl - it's on my list for IDS'ing.. I have the deck, the large size deck, two of the Pollack books ..... I LIKE the deck. For me it's warm, its inviting and I even like the eye!!!

But I can't post all that in De-enabling - gregory would wallop me with noodles or something dreadful. Nisaba would have at me with her decaying tuna fish....

But you are definitely not alone. The deck has real traction and depth, and you are getting some cracking readings out of it


ETA and more important than that by far - you are enhancing your knowledge and understanding of tarot, of yourself and of the world around you.

Yeah . . . yeah . . . what she said . . .

I'm one of the most guilty of bashing the Haindl, and I think it was to you that I did it

But Wendy's right - rise above it. You're in on some secret the rest of us are missing. Instead of doing a Ciro, make like Artie Waite and smile enigmatically, whilst chuckling smugly (or perhaps cackling maniacally) inside, because you get it and us plebs don't

\m/ Kat