Beginner's Reflections: Ace of Deniers

Moonbow

Hadar

When I look at this card I see lots of flowers also, the coin looks like a large sunflower or daisy and the middle looks like the Lancaster red rose (war of the roses). Together with the curling, climbing stems and buds it's a real show off, it just screams ornateness and importance.

When I meditate for just a few minutes on this card I see a large coin being tossed and landing balanced on the elaborate stems. It's still hovering there and any second now could fall with a loud crash........... just dreaming sorry.........

To me it is newness, expense, importance, richness, and growth.
 

Moongold

Jewel-ry said:
Everytime I look at this card I see one of those big brass, ornate door knobs - one turn and your in! You do have to turn the knob though and this movement comes in the two. For the moment, the knob is just there, full of potential. Its the only thing that stops you from going through the door. You could almost say the pathways are depicted too.
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Jewel-ry, this is a beautiful metaphor :)

There is something substantial about a door knob that is quite consistent with the material dimension to deniers.

Can we use your metaphor sometimes?
 

Moongold

When looking at one of the Marseilles I find it helpful to get out the whole suit because somehow they are all connected. And I had the Ace and all the others out and, seeing these beautiful golden orbs, thought of the music of the spheres.

RobertMealing posted some links to Pythagorean numerology in another thread and it would be worth looking at these again, Pythagoras was the one who first described the music of the spheres.

Pythagrous said that the music of the spheres came from the stars being attached to crystal spheres revolving around the earth. These heavenly spheres, eternally revolving, produce harmonious sounds only the truly inspired can hear. Some people on Aeclectic have heard them.

I think this is another image which redefines the deniers in my opinion. In terms of element, they represent the earth, but as above, so below as we say in astrology. Somehow the idea of the golden deniers being representative, or connected in some way, with these mystical spheres is very beautiful.

It speaks of harmony of the human experience here on earth with beauty and truth in a dimension we know little about but which beckons us constantly in the reality of our everyday lives.

The eternal circle, the gold and the brown, the shapes within, the simple but classic flowers, the green background of the Fournier......they all fit this idea somehow.

I think it is becoming easier to understand the occasional hints JMD and others make of the possibility of mysticism in the Marseilles, when divested of narrative. There is a different kind of mysticism possible in narrative decks, but there is something new and fresh possible in the Marseilles abstractions too.
 

filipas

The Marseilles Ace of Coins

Interesting posts on the Ace of Coins! Different angles, but all seem tied together by themes of 'potential creation' and 'the world in miniature'. I liked what Terri had to say about the coin being an image of the world because it shows how this card seems to reflect the design of Trump XXI, 'Le Monde', with the circle suggesting 'completeness' and the extensions suggesting 'four-fold manifestation'.

One thing I've noticed about the Marseilles -- and it never ceases to intrigue me -- is that it pays to numerically count repeating details in the iconography. And in the Camoin and various Conver editions, the details here are especially suggestive. (The Hadar is similar but contains slight variations.)

Within the outer circular ring of the coin are two superimposed sets of 'rays'; each has sixteen rays, making a total of exactly 32 rays. (It should be noted that -- just like the two circles inscribed on this coin -- the topmost set of rays are drawn with double lines. The outlines of these rays and circles were thus able to be colored in after woodblock printing.) To find 32 rays on the coin of this Ace seems rather remarkable because it suggests an allusion to the 32 paths discussed in the Sepher Yetzirah, a kabbalistic work which was popular in France, Spain, and Italy during the period in which these decks were engraved. (Of course, whether there is any actual historical connection here to the Sepher Yetzirah is an issue best left for other threads.) In Jewish kabbalism, the 32 paths are the 10 sephirah and the 22 paths connecting those sephirah -- a diagram symbolizing the blueprint of all creation. This harks back to what has already been said of this Ace as symbolizing the seed of physical manifestation.

Within the inner circular ring of the coin is a flower, its four petals echoing the four vegetal arms which branch out from the coin. Each petal is inscribed with three lines, which to my mind suggests the arrangement of sun signs within their fire, air, water and earth designations. Also strange and interesting is that there are exactly twelve dots shown at the center of the flower, a seeming allusion to the twelve zodiacal signs.

Here in this card we have some of the most archetypal patterns being intimated! And I think the iconography suggests that the divine blueprint exists within all things symbolized by the coin, from worlds and supernovas to the small seed, from every cell to each DNA strand.

Thanks,
- Mark
 

tmgrl2

very cool extension, Mark...I didn't count the points, but it makes sense...everything else was so "ordered" numerically and "in space" so symtetrical...

terri
 

jmd

Mark Filipas mentions one of my favourite similarity of 'abstracted' imagery between this Ace and the World card, in that there is both central circle/ellipse (and in some early non-Marseille cards, the World also had a circle - upon which stood the Christ-like figure) and the four corners also being ornate.

On the Hadar, though it does alter from the more common renditions, it is also quite interesting to note the various number of petals used in both the internal and 'external' (or dual) flower depicted.

Most early decks, however, seem to have a clear fourfold aspect or petals depicted in the central 'flower'.

The Vieville (as often, seems to stear away from the more accepted depiction) has only writing around the central Coin (listing, it seems, the Atouts or 'trumps'). Its depiction, however, makes the possibility of seeing this card as a eucharist striking - as if the central circle itself arises from the aureoled solar opening, reminiscent of the hand emerging from the same in the Aces of Baston and Sword, save that the view is front-on in this case.

In the Dodal (which I have attached), the other striking feature is that the 'branches' are certainly not clearly branches at all, but could easily be taken for the hilts and the beginning of sabre blades. Only from the ending of the hilts do the 'flowers' seem to be depicted - and even there not quite as though growing out of the depiction.

I also remember, many years ago an image which has always stayed with me: that of being a pumpkin (popon/melon) amidst its foliage - ie, a food ripe for its picking, full of potential but not yet consumed :)

Going back to the number thirty-two, and though the Sefer Yetzirah mentions the 32 paths of Wisdom, whether these are the ten Sefirot and their possible connections is but one view - for many early Tree of Life depictions depict but 16 connections (adding to the other important number of 26). To my mind, 32 related to Wisdom is more closely connected to that which is contained between Bet and Lamed, ie, that which is both within the Heart and within the Torah.
 

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Centaur

Moongold said:
These heavenly spheres, eternally revolving, produce harmonious sounds only the truly inspired can hear.

Now that sounds rather nice. It is a shame that such a sound is not available on CD. Ha! :)

On a more serious note, I do like this idea... it really does fit in well with the image of this particular Ace. I am thinking back to my drum analogy... I am now thinking of the noise of a crystal tone... the noise of creation and vibration... perhaps the noise of these very spheres.

Originally posted by filipas
Within the outer circular ring of the coin are two superimposed sets of 'rays'; each has sixteen rays, making a total of exactly 32 rays. (It should be noted that -- just like the two circles inscribed on this coin -- the topmost set of rays are drawn with double lines. The outlines of these rays and circles were thus able to be colored in after woodblock printing.) To find 32 rays on the coin of this Ace seems rather remarkable because it suggests an allusion to the 32 paths discussed in the Sepher Yetzirah, a kabbalistic work which was popular in France, Spain, and Italy during the period in which these decks were engraved. (Of course, whether there is any actual historical connection here to the Sepher Yetzirah is an issue best left for other threads.) In Jewish kabbalism, the 32 paths are the 10 sephirah and the 22 paths connecting those sephirah -- a diagram symbolizing the blueprint of all creation. This harks back to what has already been said of this Ace as symbolizing the seed of physical manifestation.

I started to count those jagged ray-edges last night, but I kept losing count and fell asleep. LOL. I find what you said to be very interesting. I am reminded of the Rose-Cross display on the back of the Thoth Tarot cards. If my memory serves me correctly, the Rose-Cross is also related to the Kabbalistic tree of life and the various paths on that tree. Infact, in his book, Understanding Aleister Crowley's Thoth Tarot, Duquette, explains the tiny flower in the middle of the Rose-Cross as bursting out like a seed... the first breath of life. Infact, the flower in centre of the Marseille Ace of Deniers reminds me of the flower in the centre of the Rose-Cross. Different, but similar, in my own thoughts.

Originally posted by jmd
Going back to the number thirty-two, and though the Sefer Yetzirah mentions the 32 paths of Wisdom, whether these are the ten Sefirot and their possible connections is but one view - for many early Tree of Life depictions depict but 16 connections (adding to the other important number of 26). To my mind, 32 related to Wisdom is more closely connected to that which is contained between Bet and Lamed, ie, that which is both within the Heart and within the Torah.

Again, it is great that there are so many different perspectives.

Originally posted by jmd
In the Dodal (which I have attached), the other striking feature is that the 'branches' are certainly not clearly branches at all, but could easily be taken for the hilts and the beginning of sabre blades. Only from the ending of the hilts do the 'flowers' seem to be depicted - and even there not quite as though growing out of the depiction.

Yes... I had a look at the image and they do seem to resemble hilts and blades. I wonder what this would bring to the meaning of the card? In my opinion, as I relate swords to the element air, I guess it could refer to the manifestation of thought into physical reality.
 

Strange2

After gazing into the Ace of Deniers (Hadar, Camoin) for several minutes, I was mezmerized by its mandala-like motion, drawing me in like a magic mirror, providing a glimpse or portal into an infinitely pulsing world. Like looking into the interior of a cell or atom, or into the heart of a sun.

(queue the music from Pink Floyd's "Set Your Controls for the Heart of the Sun!)

The vines and flowers add to the swirling mandala effect, in a DNA dance of conception and focused perception.

Echoing the music of the spheres and drum motif mentioned by others, the central disk and ornate vine stand also reminds me of a big gong, ready to reverberate and create the cosmos.
 

tmgrl2

Strange2 said:
After gazing into the Ace of Deniers (Hadar, Camoin) for several minutes, I was mezmerized by its mandala-like motion, drawing me in like a magic mirror, providing a glimpse or portal into an infinitely pulsing world. Like looking into the interior of a cell or atom, or into the heart of a sun.

(queue the music from Pink Floyd's "Set Your Controls for the Heart of the Sun!)

The vines and flowers add to the swirling mandala effect, in a DNA dance of conception and focused perception.

Echoing the music of the spheres and drum motif mentioned by others, the central disk and ornate vine stand also reminds me of a big gong, ready to reverberate and create the cosmos.

Another great image/metaphor.....terri