Marseilles decks: Translating French card titles?

tmgrl2 said:

I know ....the IIII really threw me when I got my first TdM decks...

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Whenever I see this IIII, I cannot help thinking that I am seeing four Corinthian Pillars - supporting the roof of a temple.

And then I think of what the Emperor can symbolise - the structure, the security, the strength and solidity of the number 4 and of the function of an Emperor.

(One day I would like us to discuss the difference between a King and an Emperor. In another thread, perhaps.)

I think Valet is obviously wrong in English.
Page sounds right, no? I mean if, as punchinella points out, a Page is training for Knighthood, and also is in service of a King or a Queen (I always thought the Pages in the Tarot served the Queen, and the Knights in the Tarot served the King), then our Valet in French is a Page in English. And not a Knave.

We need to talk more about La Maison-Dieu.

When I first saw this sort of thing, I was like 13 or 14 - I didn'tknow any better! The first time I saw 4 as IV, I was like, "huh?"

Reading Kris Hadar's website, he said "That's just how they wrote back then." Ahhh the smoke clears...the fog lifts...sometimes a cigar is just a cigar! How appealing!

Diana said:

I think Valet is obviously wrong in English.
Page sounds right, no? I mean if, as punchinella points out, a Page is training for Knighthood, and also is in service of a King or a Queen (I always thought the Pages in the Tarot served the Queen, and the Knights in the Tarot served the King), then our Valet in French is a Page in English. And not a Knave.

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Agreed. The term knave always seems so derogatory to me.

Another thread reminded me of something. The French title for Arcanum VI, is "L'Amoureux" and not "Les Amoureux." In other words, it's singular not plural.

This card would therefore be entitled "The Lover" and not "The Lovers".

I think it's a very important distinction to make. And one which once against emphasises the difference between what is depicted in the Marseille tradition and the WCS tradition.

Here there are not two people being struck by Cupid and who fall madly in love. There is only one young man who is being told to follow his heart....

Diana said:

Whenever I see this IIII, I cannot help thinking that I am seeing four Corinthian Pillars - supporting the roof of a temple.

And then I think of what the Emperor can symbolise - the structure, the security, the strength and solidity of the number 4 and of the function of an Emperor.

(One day I would like us to discuss the difference between a King and an Emperor. In another thread, perhaps.)

Click to expand...

would like to have this discussion...another thread?

I think Valet is obviously wrong in English.
Page sounds right, no? I mean if, as punchinella points out, a Page is training for Knighthood, and also is in service of a King or a Queen (I always thought the Pages in the Tarot served the Queen, and the Knights in the Tarot served the King), then our Valet in French is a Page in English. And not a Knave.

We need to talk more about La Maison-Dieu.

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Diana....can't rememer where I was reading about La Maison-Dieu...maybe in the Robert Place interview....one of them..there was picture of a woman carrying La Maison-Dieu in her hand...it was smallish...and it had three windows (the trinity?) Will have to think on it and wait till tomorrow. I just found the picture...printed out from interview with Robert Place (Tarot Garden) page 8...Places's Tarot of the Saints...St. Barbara/The Tower...she carries the House of God...

terri