Visconti Empress Who Might Not Be One

Rosanne

In the renaissance green from Persephone meant fertility, but it became the colour of Looooove and blue was faithfulness.

So we find on this card we call the Empress green gloves of Love.
On her shield we find a black eagle. It is often thought this was the bought emblem by Visconti.

Here is a reproduction of Bianca's son's Le Rotelle della "Condotta or Soldiers sheild.
http://www.ugopozzati.it/images/Condottarotella17.jpg
Note the Tdm type wreath.
ON the door of the Church where Bianca was married is the same lower "paintbrush". I have no idea what it is.The only thing I can think of it is decoration on helmet or Horse. But there on top is the Eagle.
On a Ceremonial shield of Milanese soldiers is the eagle and paintbrush :D and the words 'Deserving and Transitory'

Here is one of Francesca's ones
http://www.ugopozzati.it/images/Condottarotella4.jpg

But here is his other one. This is important.
I had always believed this motto was a Visconti device, and indeed it says so in Kaplan. It belongs to Francesca Sforza.
http://www.ugopozzati.it/images/Condottarotella12.jpg

So what do you reckon? Bianca is our Empress?

~Rosanne
 

Huck

Condottarotella2.jpg


These pictures are nice, but made with an interest like that of the SCA ..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_for_Creative_Anachronism
... (reproduction with occasionally - likely - some phantasy), "Renaissance games".

But a nice page, nonetheless.
http://www.ugopozzati.it/
"Un sito dedicato al Modellismo,
in particolare alla creazione e pittura di figurini storici.
Troverete informazioni e fotografie dei miei lavori e notizie relative al mondo del soldatino. "

The Visconti dove is a Visconti dove, as far I know it, even if Francesco Sforza really used it personally. There are two sort of doves already in the Michelino deck, long before Sforza had a Milanese background.
There was earlier some argumentation, that the Empress showed similarity to the real once-had-been-Empress Barbara von Cilli, wife of Sigismondo, whose remarkable beard had survived on many pictures.

Pisanello.jpg


This Italian beard (Pisanello) from 1433 is rather short, likely cause the weather is too hot in Italy.

d0204604.jpg


250px-Albrecht_D%C3%BCrer_082.jpg

The posthumus Dürer-beard is longer, but another, which I found as an Hungarian beard from ca. 1428 (I don't find the picture) was longer than Dürer's. And I saw in a noble exhibition book about Sigismondo (sponsored by the state of Luxembourg, so high "official opinion" is connected), that it was accepted, that the Pierpont-Morgan-Bergamo Emperor was seen as "Emperor Sigismondo" without discussion (not that they really do know it better than us, but actually they had a lot of other Sigismondo pictures to evaluate the similarity).

Another one, a wild hippie ..

Sigismund(HRR).jpg


1452 ... Sforza in 1452 had reason to have no good feelings about the new emperor Fredrick III, just on visit in Italy. He restarted the war with Venice, somehow April/May/June, and for the emperor Venice is the last city, which he visited.
Then had been political agreement with Venice against Sforza in Milan. No reason to paint the new emperor on a private Tarocchi game, it's understandable, that we see an old - better - emperor.

410px-Meister_der_Chronik_des_Konzils_von_Konstanz_001.jpg


Sigismondo (above) and Barbara von Cilly (below) in Constance 1415 (likely painted some time later)

Barbara of Cilly was born 1390/95, so about 25 years younger than her husband.
 

Rosanne

Hi Huck,
I am more careful these days before I write something.
I checked with the site about authenticity of the reproduction shields before I posted them. So although they are sparkling new they are based on the real deal. They have Visconti's shield with its Viper etc. So not Fantasy reproductions at all. Accuracy is apparently their claim to fame.Those Knights are playing- true, but they take authenticity very seriously- with battle plans and maps etc.Their access to archival material is impressive and is only between the years 1277-1535. Never knock an enthusiast- they are often the ones with accurate information. :D

I had always believed this Emperor was Sigismundo because of Sforza and the meeting in Siena (the Iron crown)- so by association the Empress. These days I am not so sure. I would have expected her to have a different crown for starters, seen as they were accurate with his, even if a little exaggerated. Her shield has the single headed eagle and his is a double headed one, although you cannot quite tell from the wear on his card. He apparently dyed his beard so the wild hippie you posted is likely more accurate.

~Rosanne
 

Huck

hm ...

Svizzero-bandieramassimiliano9.jpg


In this case the flag is rather precisely according a book painting ... we had this recently, it was made for Massimiliano Sforza. The idea, that the book painting motif once was also at a flag is "phantasy", at least I would assume so, if no other evidence exists.

We see probably real shields (he calls it "rotelle") at ...

http://www.ugopozzati.it/Rotelle-Milanesi.htm

.. the motifs, that we find on the large pictures are not all at these probably real objects. The motifs were taken from somewhere else, I would assume, and taken as a shield-decoration. Why not, in his interest this is a usable idea.

And here we have Francesco Sforza ...

FrancescoSforza6.jpg


... :)

But here is his other one. This is important.
I had always believed this motto was a Visconti device, and indeed it says so in Kaplan. It belongs to Francesca Sforza.
http://www.ugopozzati.it/images/Condottarotella12.jpg

If you took your analyzed information from this site ...
http://www.ugopozzati.it/Uominidellacondottarotelle.htm
... I would say, you've been careless about your good name as a researcher ... :) ... you would have better said, that from this site one might have the impression, as if Francesco Sforza etc ... , although Kaplan had given the information etc. ...

It's far safer and much better to stay in the case of an observed contradiction in outside information free of any final judgments like "It belongs to Francesco Sforza", by which you state, that Mr. A was wrong and Mr. B is right. Mr. A. might be still right and also exaggerated with some right.
Kaplan II, page 73. Coronation of Giangalezzo 1395 or little later. Burning bird at the right side. But I think, that this symbol is older.
 

Rosanne

:D Fair enough.

Amended sentences.
It would appear from this example of a shield from a reproduction company in Milan, whose little reproductions are on sale at a very expensive price (I Know that expensive does not mean always correct) at the Sforza Castle Museum shop, and the information in Kaplan Vol 11 is at variance over a Visconti or Sforza device of Dove in sunburst with motto "A bon droyt"
It would appear that the troops of Sforza- either used Visconti Shields long after Visconti or that the Dove and Motto became his, because it is on a Milan Shield at the same time. A pelican + Motto is on the CY Female Knight Court of Coins - yet it says in Kaplan that the Cary Yale is without Pelicans.

Here is one example from the multitude of references in books about Milan, that I bought back with me and they all say the same thing...
Abbiategrasso

Very similar in its austere simplicity is the Castello Visconteo Sforzesco (1382) in Abbiategrasso, built on a rectangular plan, with the courtyard opening onto the piazza. At the junction of the two sides, with fine give windows, are the remains of the tower, while in the courtyard we can see the decorations with the Sforza motto "a bon droit". The late fourteenth-century Lombard Gothic style church of S. Maria Nuova has the great pronaos designed by Bramante in 1497 against its facade.

So the Milanese have got it wrong?
Nowhere did I find that it was a Visconti Motto- not in any of the 10 Museums and Art Gallery I trekked through.

There is another explanation...the cards we call the Visconti should be called the Sforza :D and he was smart enough to use his betrothed family devices.

I have scanned the CY and PBM Empresses and they remarkably alike- unlike The Emperor cards

~Rosanne
 

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Cerulean

Bianca Maria was portrayed in many lovely portraits

http://www.kleio.org/en/history/famtree/sforza/829.html

If she was a Madonna, she also or perhaps a close likeness could have been portrayed as an Empress in the Visconti-Sforza cards.

and Francesco Sforza, although he married prior to Bianca Maria, and was older, it was said it was a happy marriage.

Some portraits of Francesco Sforza for comparison:

http://www.kleio.org/en/history/famtree/sforza/054.html

I did think this was an interesting and related site in regards to the portrayal of the 'royal' Duke and Duchess of Milan!

And the marriage of Bianca Maria with Francesco Sforza...and I believe these notes about Bonafacio Bembo brothers throughout the thread in this link would assist in your related threads about looking for the Bonafacio brothers artwork. Best wishes.


Cerulean
 

Rosanne

Oh Thank you Cerulean!
Wonderful site and I have a miniature of Sforza with a little forked beard, sitting on his Horse in armour. (him not the horse) :D

Yes it is not beyond bounds that Mr and Mrs Sforza (were they called that?) had themselves as Royals. I agree the headdress in the cards is very like the Madonna picture. It is also noticeable that he had himself as Saint Anthony Abbot and somewhat alike for the Hermit as the Emperor beardwise in the PMB Visconti. These images were a way of public relations when you were not able to mix the sacred with the secular in the Churches. All the great families of Italy did the same thing. One Saint that was never used for Solider Princes it seems was Saint Sebastion - showing themselves shot with arrows did not have the same appeal.

~Rosanne
 

Huck

Rosanne said:
Oh Thank you Cerulean!
Wonderful site and I have a miniature of Sforza with a little forked beard ....

... :) ... be careful, Rosanne. Next trap. The attributions at this site have a somewhat revolutionary character, they're often not safe ground, but theory of the connected researcher.
Part of the theory it is, that Mona Lisa is identical to the wife of Giangaleazzo Sforza and at least more than 50% of the world believes, that this is not so.

Nonetheless, her theories are interesting. But's it's advisable to take this with care.
 

Huck

Rosanne said:
:D Fair enough.

Amended sentences.
It would appear from this example of a shield from a reproduction company in Milan, whose little reproductions are on sale at a very expensive price (I Know that expensive does not mean always correct) at the Sforza Castle Museum shop, and the information in Kaplan Vol 11 is at variance over a Visconti or Sforza device of Dove in sunburst with motto "A bon droyt"
It would appear that the troops of Sforza- either used Visconti Shields long after Visconti or that the Dove and Motto became his, because it is on a Milan Shield at the same time. A pelican + Motto is on the CY Female Knight Court of Coins - yet it says in Kaplan that the Cary Yale is without Pelicans.

Here is one example from the multitude of references in books about Milan, that I bought back with me and they all say the same thing...


So the Milanese have got it wrong?
Nowhere did I find that it was a Visconti Motto- not in any of the 10 Museums and Art Gallery I trekked through.

There is another explanation...the cards we call the Visconti should be called the Sforza :D and he was smart enough to use his betrothed family devices.

Kaplan at page 106, Encyclopedia I gives some of the arguments about the "datings of the decks". There he states, that Cary-Yale and Brera-Brambilla are using coins, which are associated with the reign of Filippo Maria Visconti and that the Bembo cards (PMB) uses coins with the VISCONTI sun device. Similar we have, that later dukes of the Sforza also used partly designs, which were used before.
In the straw hat debate I made some notes about the chosen symbols at the beginning, there was the information, that Sforza made his personal "dog-with-tree-money" not before 1462.
The political state for Sforza had been insecure in the early time of his reign, and also Galeazzo Maria wasn't respected by the emperor as successor of Filippo Maria's rights in 1452. So possibly Sforza was reluctant to mark his reign too offensive with own symbols and preferred earlier Visconti symbols, but not those used "personally" by Filippo Maria.

Generally there was in the discussion around the age of the Cary-Yale also the date of 1468, but this had been a minority opinion.

I have scanned the CY and PBM Empresses and they remarkably alike- unlike The Emperor cards

The Cary-Yale Emperor + Empress are presented in the old chess figure style ... it was a 5x16-deck and a sort of "Chess Tarot" according the opinions of
some revolutionary researchers

71330_archaeological_chess.jpg


KINGS

71331_archaeological_chess.jpg


QUEENS