Sun AND the moon below the Asc, is this possible ?

Sharla

Just looking back at a chart i did the other day, and the sun and the moon are below the ac/dc in the chart.

What does this mean ?

Chart done England time 7.28pm.

The applying aspect between the sun and moon is a 5 degree trine, if this helps.
 

Sharla

Okay it is possible i've just found it out now.....

So basically because the sun is also below the asc and is in the diurnal sect, then this makes the moon in charge of the chart and not the sun. But (if im understanding this correctly), venus and mars also need to be under the horizon with the moon to perform properly.

And in my chart, venus and mars are both in the diurnal sect. Also jupiter is conjunct the sun (almost) also in the wrong sect, so jupiter can't perform well either.
 

Minderwiz

Okay it is possible i've just found it out now.....

So basically because the sun is also below the asc and is in the diurnal sect, then this makes the moon in charge of the chart and not the sun. But (if im understanding this correctly), venus and mars also need to be under the horizon with the moon to perform properly.

And in my chart, venus and mars are both in the diurnal sect. Also jupiter is conjunct the sun (almost) also in the wrong sect, so jupiter can't perform well either.

Yes Moon and Sun can both be below the Ascendant. The Sun determines whether it is day or night, not the Moon and there can be Moonless nights.

Sect refers primarily to the planet, not the upper and lower hemispheres. It basically means a team or group, rather like it's use in the term religious sect, though there are no religious connotations to the Astrology.

Sun, Jupiter and Saturn form the Diurnal Sect. They are best in a day chart

Moon, Venus and Mars form the Nocturnal Sect, they are best in a night chart.

In Hellenistic Astrology being in Sect meant that the benefic of the Sect in favour (Diurnal in a day chart, Nocturnal in a night chart) was the most benefic planet in the chart, i.e. Jupiter in a day chart, Venus in a night chart. T
he out of sect benefic was neutral to mildly benefic, The in sect Malefic (Saturn in a day chart, Mars in a night chart) was neutral to mildly malefic and the out of sect Malefic was the most malefic in a chart (Saturn in a night chart, Mars in a day chart). So there was a range from very good to very bad. Sun and Moon worked best when in Sect but were neutral to mildly benefic out of sect. Mercury was diurnal if it rose before the Sun, nocturnal if it set after the Sun. Mercury tended to be benefic if it was with benefics; malefic if it tended to be with the malefics.

In the Medieva period this became considerably tighter and a diurnal planet functioned well only if it was above the horizon in a day chart and best if it was also in a diurnal sign (masculine or Fire/Air). In a nocturnal chart a diurnal planet was best below the horizon but not as good as in a day chart.

The reverse situation applied to nocturnal planets, Planets gained dignity according to being in the best place for a chart which was of their sect. These requirements just didn't exist in Hellenistic Astrology. The nearest it came to it was on whether the Moon was the most powerful planet in a nocturnal chart, if it was below the horizon. There were situations, especially if the Sun was about to rise, when even in a night chart the Sun would be seen as the stronger.

When I do horary, I now keep to the Hellenistic view rather than the medieval view, but that is a personal stance. You will find most horary Astrologers keep to the Medieval view, if they use Sect at all. By Lilly's day it was not considered as important as it did in the Hellenistic and early and middle Medieval period.
 

Sharla

Yes Moon and Sun can both be below the Ascendant. The Sun determines whether it is day or night, not the Moon and there can be Moonless nights.

Sect refers primarily to the planet, not the upper and lower hemispheres. It basically means a team or group, rather like it's use in the term religious sect, though there are no religious connotations to the Astrology.

Sun, Jupiter and Saturn form the Diurnal Sect. They are best in a day chart

Moon, Venus and Mars form the Nocturnal Sect, they are best in a night chart.
Okay the "sect" makes more sense now as to what it is, as i was referring to it as the lower and upper hemispheres.
In Hellenistic Astrology being in Sect meant that the benefic of the Sect in favour (Diurnal in a day chart, Nocturnal in a night chart) was the most benefic planet in the chart, i.e. Jupiter in a day chart, Venus in a night chart. T
he out of sect benefic was neutral to mildly benefic, The in sect Malefic (Saturn in a day chart, Mars in a night chart) was neutral to mildly malefic and the out of sect Malefic was the most malefic in a chart (Saturn in a night chart, Mars in a day chart). So there was a range from very good to very bad. Sun and Moon worked best when in Sect but were neutral to mildly benefic out of sect. Mercury was diurnal if it rose before the Sun, nocturnal if it set after the Sun. Mercury tended to be benefic if it was with benefics; malefic if it tended to be with the malefics.

In the Medieva period this became considerably tighter and a diurnal planet functioned well only if it was above the horizon in a day chart and best if it was also in a diurnal sign (masculine or Fire/Air). In a nocturnal chart a diurnal planet was best below the horizon but not as good as in a day chart.

The reverse situation applied to nocturnal planets, Planets gained dignity according to being in the best place for a chart which was of their sect. These requirements just didn't exist in Hellenistic Astrology. The nearest it came to it was on whether the Moon was the most powerful planet in a nocturnal chart, if it was below the horizon. There were situations, especially if the Sun was about to rise, when even in a night chart the Sun would be seen as the stronger.

When I do horary, I now keep to the Hellenistic view rather than the medieval view, but that is a personal stance. You will find most horary Astrologers keep to the Medieval view, if they use Sect at all. By Lilly's day it was not considered as important as it did in the Hellenistic and early and middle Medieval period.

Thanks Minderwiz, im going to read through this a few times and let it sink in, i thought id got the 'sect' but ive actually not.