What are the major *differences* between the 'schools' of Morin and Lilly?

RohanMenon

I'm working through Morin's books, and a friend has just started working through Lilly, so this question came up.

Since there are people here (notably Minderwiz,) who seem to have worked through both, I thought I'd ask.

A supplementary question: Is it ok to learn Lilly and Morin in parallel (I am tempted to do a 'group study' with my Lillyan friend) or would it be too confusing? The main draw is learning Horary which, if I understand correctly is not taught in the Morin system

thanks in advance,
 

Minderwiz

I'm working through Morin's books, and a friend has just started working through Lilly, so this question came up.

Since there are people here (notably Minderwiz,) who seem to have worked through both, I thought I'd ask.

A supplementary question: Is it ok to learn Lilly and Morin in parallel (I am tempted to do a 'group study' with my Lillyan friend) or would it be too confusing? The main draw is learning Horary which, if I understand correctly is not taught in the Morin system

thanks in advance,

The difference is largely a matter of emphasis. However, Lilly is much more in the mainstream of his day, whereas Morin was something of a reformer.

There are substantive differences in that Lilly uses profections, whereas Morin not only doesn't but is very contemptuous of them, treating them as being an alien (arab invention). In fact progressions were used by the very earliest Astrologers and was a central method in Hellenistic Astrology. Moreover it seems that Morin either can't recognise the difference between a symbolic method and one that's based on actual movement of planets, or chooses not to.

Morin puts more emphasis on Solar and Lunar returns than Lilly, though the latter uses them. Morin also allows the SR chart to be drawn up for the natives current location at the Solar Return, rather than their natal location.

Lilly is more concerned with the rulers of houses and places more emphasis on them than the planets in a house (though note, he does not ignore them at all). Morin places more emphasis on planets in a house though he doesn't ignore the house rulers.

Basically Lilly is a jobbing Astrologer, doing the work for a living. Morin is a professor of Mathematics and near to the French Court. In my view that makes Lilly easier to read but you won't get the philosophical discussions to the same extent that you get with Morin. The result is that it's easier to see Lilly's system at work but if you are looking for a philosophical basis, then Morin is stronger.

Horary doesn't seem to feature strongly in Morin, if at all. For Lilly it's his day to day bread and butter and Books I and II of Christian Astrology are his masterpiece (Book I is the Introduction to Astrology and Book II is its application to Horary. Book III is its application to Natal Astrology.)

Lilly has been criticised because his explanation of Temperament in Book III is rather muddy and doesn't seem to work clearly. However it's a good start and it's possible to augment it to get reasonable guidelines.

You will find That Morin doesn't seem to bother with the minor rulerships, Terms and Face, and tends to keep to Domicile ruler, exaltation and triplicity. Lilly does use them but keeps to Ptolemy, which is not the system that was most widely used. Indeed it's not even clear if Ptolemy used his own systems for Triplicity Rulers (Two instead of three planets) and differing sharply on the Water Triplicity (Mars as day and night ruler) as compared to the system widely used by his contempories (usually referred to as Dorothean Triplicities and having Venus rule Water by Day and Mars by night..

That being said, it's not confusing to read both in parallel, as long as you recognise that both are giving their own views, with reasons. Lilly is more mainstream for his time, and indeed for the late Medieval period. Morin is the reformer but at the time few of his reforms were implemented. The main ones that were eventually his legacy were the emphasis on planets in houses and his approach to Solar Returns.

Dave (Dadsnook2000) would see Morin as the Astrologer who started the Solar Return approach which eventually Dave incorporated into his own approach. There are substantive differences but the themes are there. Dave wouldn't recognise Lilly's approach or really give it much houseroom. And Lilly's emphasis on Profections has died out of use, although there's now something or a reappraisal, which has grown out of the recognition that Profections were part of the original system of Astrology.
 

RohanMenon

Thank You, Minderwiz,

Very detailed and clear answer, as always.
I'll start reading Lilly in parallel then (and report progress or lack of it here!)