Etteilla and LS Book of Thoth. Help!

Sylvie Steinbach

Cerulean And The crowned one

Cerulean, Nice Job! I was too lazy to do that ;-) lol

Dear Crowned one, well actually Cerulean inserted a link that shows one that is very closed to the one I own...mine is more vivid in colors (I have it personally for 35 years and I am amazed that the graphics have remained in mint condition without fading despite the fact they went through 2 world wars and a crossing of the Atlantic!) but the pictures are the same artwork and i do have the same box. The cards are very very thick. So we can say the one I own is close to the same era from that one showed on the link....Of course the French seal is on the two of swords, lame 62, which says "Decret du 12 Avril 1890". All cards are without any scratch, cut or handwritting! The deck is complete with its original two box system. Cards are 65mm large and 118mm tall.

WWPCM01612
"Grimaud" (France)
deck "Grand Etteilla" (78 cards)
WWPCM01612/01: edition 1910

http://a.trionfi.eu/WWPCM/decks03/d01612/d01612.htm

However the back is a bit different it has swirling effect and has nothing to do with the back shown in the picture. I wish I could upload the back for you crowned one so you can see...Because of my family history I always suspected this one was 1900 (or even earlier). I placed it 1910 to the latest as of the above sample. The swirling back is very unusual. Those very rare decks are now considered real sought after antiques that can be sold for hundreds of dollars!!!
 

Sylvie Steinbach

Bee!

Did you get my email???
 

Moonbow

Cerulean and Sylvie, thanks so much for sharing the link and this extra information. I can see mine confirmed as the 1969 one, perhaps not rare but its the weight of a brick and I really like the thickness of the cards. This extra information and Freemasonry connection is great.

Sounds like you have a beautiful deck there Sylvie!

Looking forward to seeing if you can come up with anything from the auction catalogue Cerulean.
 

Sylvie Steinbach

RE: my book

When I found that Grand Etteilla at my grand parents', I also found a book. Unfortunately as much as the deck is in mint condition (and trust me I played with it when I was a kid!) the book lost its covers front and back, it is not in good shape with very yellow pages. So I am posting to find if it is the same one that some of you have. I can't upload pictures on that site, which is very frustrating for me.

So I will just quote pages. Page 185 on mine it is said "premiere methode" le cercle (fig 17).
Page 187, fig 17 shows Le cercle, a full circle using the Grand Etteilla and the methode to read based on that drawing.

Is there anyone out there who has by chance that same very old book?

the last page has a poem on the bottom that says:
Qui le Destin par trop fouille s'embrouille; Qui le consulte trop bien n'a rien.

I have to say I always found those words humoristic and they are supposely (according to the book writer) from a contemporary individual to Nostradamus.

My translation which may not be as humoristic and please forgive me as it is not exactly word by word but I wanted to keep the idea of what it is trying to say!
"Who search too far inside Destiny ends up confused; who consults overly to foresee it sees nothing.

The book has two parts: one is for regular cartomancy with playing cards! the second part is for the Grand Etteilla and in that part it does use up and reversed meanings as well as proximities with other lames.

As a kid I vaguely remember there was a front page but never a cover. The front page had the printing date, but I can't really remember the exact one. I know it was not after the 1940's.
 

Sylvie Steinbach

Moonbow*

It is an amazing high quality constructed deck! I am still surprised it did not fade and the cards are strong, rigid and yes very heavy ;-)

Rich colors but not too overboard, detailled and without fading... I show it from time to time to clients who are into metaphysics because it is an extremely rare deck in our lifetime. I scanned the pictures and gave a full catalogue to Phoenix in NZ as it is the first deck Mlle Lenormand used when she was in her teens. I think she tried to overdo Etteilla with her Grand Lenormand which is constructed with a lot of symbols and each card were very large and heavy... A bit of competition here!

Of course I noticed the nails right away and the freemasons' connection since I am born into that lineage. I studied astrology with the Rosicruscians and the symbols on some of the cards refer to the part of fortune calculation for example. You have the north and south nodes references which is quite significant because today those elements are part of the karmic astrology system. I can go on and on about that deck since I have it for so long...
 

Moonbow

Sylvie, please continue to tell us more, I'm interested in your astrology studies with this deck too. Sending you a quick PM.
 

Bernice

Hi Sylvie,

Thank you for the pics.

I'm also interested that there is a Lenormand connection. Most bios' say she used a 52 playing card deck.

I've been looking at the card titled Fille Brune, the glyphs within the circles look like North Nodes. I think it's number is 70.

Cerulean, I've just noticed that card 70 is indeed 8 Coins = North Node. Thank you for the link and the listed info.

This deck seems to have an involved history - great!

Bee :)
 

coredil

Time to show some scans in order to llustrate this thread ;)

These are scans from 5 decks of my collection.
They are quite old.
I do not give too much details (lazy today ;))

First row
1. Etteilla type I with tax stamp and whirled back
2. Etteilla type I without tax stamp with curled back
3. Etteilla Type II (Lismon)

Second row
4. Etteilla Type III
5. Etteilla "Jeu de la princesse tarot" published by Watilliaux

Deck 1 & 2
Deck 2 has not such clear line drawings as deck 1.
They both have this typical very thick cardstock that Grimaud used at this time
(See also the Marteau Grimaud thread for such cardbacks:
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=57491)
I guess Sylvie has a similar deck.
Deck 1 came with the original two pieces slipcase dark red box as shown on Trionfi.

Deck 3
is one of the many existing variations of the Lismon deck!
See also this thread:
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=84223&page=3&pp=10

Deck 4
As Cerulean mentioned this paticular trimmed version of the deck has been discussed in this thread:
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=110310
There was shortly an auction on ebay with an original copy of this deck and it was very interesting to that some images were very different!
There must be several original editions of this deck.

Deck 5 must be quite old!
Dusserre made a reproduction of a colored version of this deck.
(BTW I dont know if the coloring bei Dusserre is original and if there was a colored version of this deck)

Best regards

BTW I have a facsimile copy of the "Premier cahier" and "Second cahier" of Etteilla original book:
"Manière de se recréer avec le jeu de cartes nommées Tarots"
It is so fastidious and difficult to read because Etteilla writes with a very confusing and heavy style!
It is indeed much easier to simply read the meanings written on the cards :)
 

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Bernice

Great links Coredil!

I knew there were several versions of this deck, but had no idea just how many. It seems that they've been altered/re-worked a number of times. And that might explain why this LS version that I have (Book of Thoth) has the images and titles mixed up.

Bee :)
 

Sylvie Steinbach

Thanks coredil!

You are right! I do own the first one with the swirling back and the stamp. And it is finally illustrated on this thread ;-) No more frustration....