What "qualifies" as a RWS?

Yelell

Clearly the rider deck with any back, the PCS, the lo scarabeo, and the university books deck with it's minor variations are. The universal waite, albano and the radiant probably. The golden rider, diamond tarot, and the illuminated tarot maybe not? The gummy bear tarot (it's got the upside down M and 5 streams of water and the butterflies on the sword courts!). I'm kidding, don't throw rotten fruit at me :eek:

Just a casual question as to how far you think a variation can go before it's just a different deck.
 

Samweiss

I could be considered a purist, but I think that just the RWS is the "real deal" and the rest are clones or just follow the familiar patterns of that deck. The reason is that I haven't found a deck that keeps each symbol from the original intact. The number of falling Yods in The Moon, the snake belt of The Magician or geomantic sigils in The Chariot card, all these symbols are important to me. Their meanings may not matter a whole lot during readings, but they matter a lot for study purposes, and they make the deck much richer. Why settle for a "lesser" deck? I wouldn't use my Golden Universal for study purposes, even if I like to use that for readings sometimes. That's my two cents.
 

TheRiderDeck

I could be considered a purist, but I think that just the RWS is the "real deal" and the rest are clones or just follow the familiar patterns of that deck. The reason is that I haven't found a deck that keeps each symbol from the original intact. The number of falling Yods in The Moon, the snake belt of The Magician or geomantic sigils in The Chariot card, all these symbols are important to me. Their meanings may not matter a whole lot during readings, but they matter a lot for study purposes, and they make the deck much richer. Why settle for a "lesser" deck? I wouldn't use my Golden Universal for study purposes, even if I like to use that for readings sometimes. That's my two cents.

Yes I totally agree with everything you said. I would say that the very best study deck for the RWS Tarot is either the standard US Games (plaid backs) or (and I believe most of all) the Smith-Waite Tarot Centennial Edition.
 

seven stars

For me, there's the RW "deck" and there's the RW "system". The Sola Busca Revisited, for example, I loved the artwork but the deck was not the RW System. For people who are most comfortable with that particular system of reading sure you can make them any style. Not quite as versatile as Lenormand IMO but it's still pretty versatile. Would be kind of boring if it weren't.

The Deck of the Dead is RWS but it has a twist to it, too. For example the 10 of Cups is a family graveyard. Why? Because in the RWS system that card is the card of harmony & happy family (ok, in BRIEF that's what it is) - sometimes, the only way you're going to have a harmonious family is when everyone is 6 feet under. It "is" the deck of the dead, after all.
 

Richard

I think that "restorations" by artists other than PCS, such as the Universal Waite by Mary Hanson-Roberts, are not the true RWS.

The mysterious Albano-Waite is "almost" an RWS since it contains the original line drawings of PCS, but I have come to think that additions to the images, such as the rainbow in Temperance and the jewels on the sword guards in the Swords suit, disqualify it as a true RWS. However, it is a worthy alternative for reasons which would be off topic for this thread.
 

Yelell

I wasn't thinking to include the RWS inspired decks. I think the Lo Scarabeo Universal (golden) Tarot is more like the RWS's doppelganger. And frustratingly it's not the same thing as the Mary Hanson Roberts Universal Waite Tarot, the Golden Rider, or the Lo Scarabeo Pamela Colman Smith RWS tarot (There really should be rules about naming every deck the same damn thing.)

I was thinking mostly about the recolors - I've never liked the Radiant, and I'm lukewarm about the Universal Waite. I've noticed details on the Roberts Universal Waite that I didn't see before on the RWS - because it was colored or not obscured by thick black lines. The Albano is attempting to follow Bota I figured? The Fronteras deck is sometimes ugly, but still has the same standard lines.

So I guess just the 'regular' rider deck, the US games PCS, and the US games 'original'? I am surprised how much support and popularity the US games PCS deck has.
 

INIVEA

I just wanted to add my 2 cents in, I understand that for study purposes the RWS deck and in it's variations are good.

The (LMS) Llewelyn Moore Smith is the best clone of the RWS deck I have come across, and should be well recognized as such. I feel that Llewelyn, Moore, and Smith did a fabulous job creating this deck, bringing out the most important symbols clearly (ie: courts) I like how the Magician was done, placing him in the forest (nature/natural energies) That he draws on all available energies in his environment and well as internally to create, communicate, etc. The Emperor, I first wasn't used to then it clicked (valley) shows he has control, power, over earthly things (water, fire, earth, air) nature. Keeping order and providing stability in (ie: eco system) The natural order of things (internally and externally) of all living and non living things (humans, animals, rocks, oceans, fish, trees, birds, weather patterns, Jet stream, even the air we breathe, etc.)

I feel that the (LMS) aka Llewelyn Classic Tarot, should be allowed to be discussed here in the RWS forum section too.

Llewelyn Classic Companion said:
The deck explored in this book was designed to be very traditional. It is based on the Rider-Waite-Smith (RWS) deck designed by Arthur E. Waite, drawn by Pamela Colman Smith, and published by the Rider Company 1910.

This deck is traditional, Llewellyn Moore Smith (LMS) deck designed by Barbara Moore, drawn by Eugene Smith, and published by the Llewelyn publications 2014.

Traditional; both artists SMITH Both Authors Waite and Moore well educated Tarot Tradition, Rider and Llewellyn publishers

Smith one deck created by a Feminine artist, the new updated version created by a Masculine Artist.
Moore and Waite again Feminine and Masculine

These 2 decks make for a perfect Marriage

Note: do you not see how beautifully these decks are linked and connected, I have made points in other posts here on the forum.

The LMS deck
Llewelyn Classic Companion said:
Llewelyn Classic Tarot ( LMS) was designed to be faithful to the traditional tarot images, symbols, and meanings

I Strongly feel the Llewellyn, needs to apply for a new deck name, for this deck and call it (LMS) Llewellyn Moore Smith.

Why well for 2 reason, (1) stop confusion with Llewelyn's Tarot and this one Llewelyn Classic Tarot. (2) Give it this new name, because it would better represent the deck.

that's in My Opinion. I hope , Llewelyn and Barbara Moore, or some one else whom has authority is listening and will present this idea for a new name change. They will have to do a 2nd reprint anyways, this deck is going to be on the market for a long time. Worth the name change.
 

rwcarter

Moderator Note

What "qualifies" as a RWS? Individuals are welcome to make that determination for themselves.

But where the Rider-Waite-Smith forum is concerned, as long as the deck contains the original line art from the Pam A/B/C/D (since there's no definitive answer to which one she actually created), regardless of coloring, then it's considered a RWS and can be discussed in this forum.

Your co-Moderators Zephyros and rwcarter
 

INIVEA

What "qualifies" as a RWS? Individuals are welcome to make that determination for themselves.

But where the Rider-Waite-Smith forum is concerned, as long as the deck contains the original line art from the Pam A/B/C/D (since there's no definitive answer to which one she actually created), regardless of coloring, then it's considered a RWS and can be discussed in this forum.

Your co-Moderators Zephyros and rwcarter

Thanks RWCarter

which part of the forum then, would be the place to discuss the LMS deck (symbolism/detail)? Tarot decks, Using Tarot Cards, or Talking Tarot?
 

rwcarter

Thanks RWCarter

which part of the forum then, would be the place to discuss the LMS deck (symbolism/detail)? Tarot decks, Using Tarot Cards, or Talking Tarot?
The deck in general would be discussed in Tarot Decks (Llewellyn's Classic Tarot or a new thread). If you wish to discuss individual card interpretations, it would be UTC until such time that a study group is created and then it would be Tarot Study Groups.