Different House Systems

Well, I am very much prepared to accept that you can do it - as I said I'm prepared to be 'convinced' in the sense of a demonstration - so in a very real sense this is not a challenge. But I think it would certainly be worth the exercise, simply to show your approach, which while unconventional (in your words) I think we can all genuinely learn from.

So starting at the Ascendant the list is:

Ascendant
Pluto
Uranus
Neptune
Venus
Mercury
Mars
Moon
Sun
MC
Jupiter
Saturn

I really look forward to your response, and I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't mind adding a post on your methodology/reasoning.

In the middle of a fencing?????

OK..... It's getting hot here!!!
I'm inrugued!
Can I provide you with my chart's planets? Is that according to the "rules" here?
I can see a lot of learning happening there!!!!!
;-)

No Aspects -- Part One

This post may get a little long so I may split up the ordered list of planets that Minderwiz supplied into two or more posts. I will address each planet/point (CAPITALIZED) in the order given and will show the preceding and following planets/points (no caps).
*** sat-ASC-pluto. Exhibits an intensity and presence, yet is also sensitive to how others react to them. Because their personality impacts other strongly, experience may either lead to a negative view of themselves or a feeling of control over others -- in any case there may be an imbalance that will likely be corrected by maturity.
*** asc-PLUTO-uranus. One's intensity and focus is built upon the ups and downs of life's experience and has gradually found innovative and individual forms of expression. There is a tendancy to find ever-larger canvases to paint upon, so to speak.
*** pluto-URANUS-neptune. The individualism noted earlier tends to coalesce around a spiritual or social-involvement theme, using that theme as a framework for expression. The question is, "can individuality be expressed directly or remotely?" Ones intensity and focus can be a turn-off in one-on-one situations.
*** uranus-NEPTUNE-venus. This can be a rebellious Neptune, of all things. A social role or recognition is needed from which one can socially interact successfully with others.
*** neptune-VENUS-mercury. This pesons value system tends to be somewhat idealistic. Does this bring them into conflicts based on expectations that are not realistic or does it lead them into an improved form of communication and sharing of ideas other than just their own?
*** venus-MERCURY-mars. Ideas and concepts are important! This leads to a development of eloquence in how one expresses and interacts. This ease of expression and prior-noted focus should enable them to communicate with fear of contradiction or territorial intrusion.
*** This is the first half of the individual planet/point components. We can already see how these particular planets and/or points interconnect to shape an individual's expression and personality. In the next post, I'll continue this review. Dave.

No Aspects -- Part Two.

Continuing with the ordered listing of planets/points that Minderiz supplied for this review . . .
*** mercury-MARS-moon. This person is action-oriented in that what is thought or talked about is immediately responded to or done (if a task). The problem is that this action-energy force can be on-again off-again. If one dreams too much of what might be, then that concept never gets completed and truly appreciated. Isn't the old expression, "Don't count your chickens until they hatch" applicable here?
*** mars-MOON-sun. So, how is the Moon portrayed by this person. IMPULSIVE seems appropriate. This would also fit with the prior mentioned on-off Mars energy tendancies. Does ones life experience find the means of channeling and managing energy? If not, it is hard to judge how the failure to reach goals would impact and intense and optimistic communicator such as this person.
*** moon-SUN-mc. Ones sense of identity and well-being requires a consistent living pattern, a natural and supportive flow and daily schedule. Order, methods, rituals can act as a sort of meditation that enables one to reach goals and to articulate the plans and messages of the groups, companies and ideals that they work for.
*** sun-MC-jupiter. This is a strongly supported MC. Health and recognition act as multipliers of success when working with others. This can be a "helper" configuration wherein one has the natural means of enhancing the efforts of others.
*** mc-JUPITER-saturn. Ones social sense of what can/might be accomplished has to be constrained by the caution and limits of others. A strong business mind works best here for long projects, while one's optimism and energy is held for small groups and projects that can be finished quickly.
*** jupiter-SATURN-asc. This can be a pattern for a social moderator of some sort. Planning and careful progress seems to be a natural path to follow. It must be hard though to temper ones enthusiasm and vision. I'm not sure how this might play out as there are many ways to express this particular Saturn. It is possible that one is expected to play a historical or family role, or follow a tradition -- all chains that one would like to break.
*** SUMMARY: As in every chart, we see a very complex person here, one who is idealistic, intense, has charm and energy, knows what a vision is and how to work towards it. On the other hand there are the expectations of others to deal with as well as the tough learning and growing experiences that hopefully has led to achieving a balance personality and harmonious life style.
*** NOTE: I would expect that you could comment on some of this for the edification of M-Press who is apparently chomping at the bit with excitement. Its a shame he is linked up with us two but then, I expect a lot of good stuff will fall out of this fun stuff that we do. In the next post I'll explain the basis for these observations given that aspects, signs, houses are not used. Of course, not using those components brings some limitations in terms of what could be said about the chart. For instance a planet in one house expresses itself in various areas of the chart using derivitive houses -- "your aunt has a mean tounge but she treats kids really nice even though she was a terror in grad school" -- those kinds of statements require houses and rulerships to support them as well as aspects (in some cases.). So this kind of interpretation has the means of being quick and easy, but may lack in other areas. Let me know what you think. Dave.

Oh, i see I was late, but i can't wait to see what will come from the above data...
Very interesting...
I also try to see if I can figure anything out! (I wouldn't dare post anything on it though!)
Dave-lemmeno if you mind more data... and got time...
I can't believe how much time we spend on this forum!

Oh-la-la!!!!!

Mercury retro, gives me mail problems, so i just got your review Dave.
I wish I knew the person! I'm impressed, even though i don't though. I can see the "make sense of all this"....

By the way, I'm a "she", and I feel most priviledged here, between a duel of two sharp swords! yahhhheeee!

Now, i know I hinted this before, but if you can agree to do mine, i know that I will learn much more, because I will be able to compare what you'll say to the 20 years of my chart probbing....
maybe i can do a reading for you instead? (I don't dare yet, but maybe the time has come ...)

For M-Press

Hi.
As you probably suspect, Minderwiz and I have a lot of fun here, not only adding some (hopefully) helpful comments on a very complex subject but also in playing with our common area of interest. In fact, that is one of the best ways of learning -- making a game out of it.
You may certainly submit an ordered list of planets from your chart. It may take a few days depending upon how my family life and schedule shapes up. My wife and I are raising three grand children and their school and sports/interests schedules fill up a lot of day sometimes. Then, a lot of our own activities add to that. But then, a busy life is better than a dull one.
After Minderwiz reads and replys to the comments I'll share with those following this list the methodology used for the given interpretations. The best thing about this method is that it is quick, can be done right from an ephemeris or sun-sign chart, and provides a fairly good grasp of the chart's meaning. I believe that we make things too complex. In the middle ages and earlier there was a lot less chart data to analyze so dignities and house rulerships were important. Today, with computers, we have too much information and the work of synthesizing a chart is overly large -- we tend to lose the intuitive approach that is so essential to understanding any symbolic language. That is not to say that we shouldn't study all branches and methodologies of astrology. Its just that there may not be any need to employ so many of them at one time. For example, in addition to using the method I employed in this thread I would feel comfortable just using mid-points or just using phase relationships in lieu of reading a more conventional chart. Both of those methods are very accurate but they will not duplicate in all respects the readings by another method -- each has their application. The same is true for viewing current and future events. I love Solar Returns for doing predictions, but years back I loved Lunar Returns. Transits were interesting but not reliable by themselves -- the same is true for secondary progressions -- each needed something else to act as triggers. Harmonic charts can be fascinating also but their use is dictated (for me) by an intuitive sense of the chart. Some people are solar or luna types, others are aspect driven. Knowing what might work best just comes from experience. And when all is said and done, everyone has the own preferences and they all work. In that sense, astrology is like tarot -- the magic is in the reader.
So, don't be hesitant in playing these games with Minderwiz and I. Thats what this list is for. Dave.

Oh Dave, thanks for all of this!
I'm getting inspired here again, my passion for astrology renewed! I really wish I had more time for this!
I'm mostly in which planet in which house, and in which sign...I love predictive astrology, but still haven't got a clue how to go about it... All I know i learned from books, and until i found this fotum I was the only "stranger" around!
Finally soemone speaks my language!
I would like to add a couple of personal comments as well, but i'll wait till you see my palnets! i don't want to give away too much!
And yes, i'm looking forward to more of these "games", as well as your duels!!!
(no rush by the way, for this at all!!!!)

Here is my info:
Asc
Saturn
(Juno)
Moon
Pluto
Uranus
Mars
Venus
Jupiter
Sun
Neptune
Mercury
MC
North Node
Chiron

Thank you!

Hi Dave,

Sorry for any delay in replying, (the dreaded demands of work!). I've only had chance to do one read on the material - However there are some clear hits - the summary especially is good.

The person concerned is my daughter - yes she is sensitive to the needs of others but can definitely be intense. Yes perhaps more idealistic in terms of values than average but not a dreamy 'Neptune' type. Action tends to be considered rather than impulsive but consideration is not overdone - a good but quick analysis and then action (Significant Aries including Mars in the sign of its rulership). The only on/off side tends to be with boyfriends where the decisiveness can break down. The living pattern does indeed need to be consistent Jupiter rules the fourth and there needs to be comfort and development from the home environment.

Yes a strong business mind is definitely there Mercury rules the MC Mercury is also Conjunct with both Mars and Venus - sharp mind and a balanced mind.

Yes she is a planner - Virgo Ascendant and large dash of Aries - she plans as though for battle and therefore usually gets what she wants, whilst still having the caring side you mentioned earlier.

And yes she often ends up as a helper/supporter to friends often in an 'organising way' - she organises them.

OK there are a fair number of hits there., more in part 2 than part 1 overall, though given the space here, I know you can't go into much detail and so somethings are rather general (the same would be true of a reading based on any system).

Incidentally I nearly added to my list of planets a statement that if you gave me the interpretation I'd tell you how you did it! I actually did do a little chase up myself and much of what I noted down is what you have said. The point though is that you have done what you said and produced an interpretation, without using signs or aspects and it isn't bad at all. Whether it could be better done using signs and aspects is something we can discuss as we go on.

I think its best 'do' M-Press now but perhaps we could maybe start a fresh thread to look at some of the issues raised and have a discussion about comparative techniques. There is fun but also real learning to be had here and it does and should make the rest of us think carefully about our techniques and the rationale behind them.

I look forward with real interest to the rest of the thread and subsequent discussion.

The magic IS in the reader!

I went through Dave's interpretation of M's daughter chart...again...
M talks mentions the methodology...
Besides combining what is in front and what after, is there really any?
Isn't this "method" more about the relationship between neighbours? How pluto will affect with intensity, Jupiter with expansion, and the Moon with moody changes?

But, even then, I don't think that I could come up with such great descriptions/interpretations...(with practice one day, maybe...)
so, in this case, i do agree with dave, that the magic is in the reader... (although I usually rely on the "hard-fact" stuff... Time for change, i guess...

Of course, if there is any hidden method here, secretly passed from generation to generation, let me know, please!!!!

yes, this IS great learning! Thanks!