Thoth, Crowley, life, and my H.G.A. - *long*

Lillith0315

billv said:
Thanks to all who've chimed in...

Catlin, it wasn't my business that made me lose my faith - it is really the question of *what* faith. I have believed for several years now that the Bible is really allegorical in nature, and probably 90% mythological. I know many people would argue differently. People can believe what they want, I don't care. I'm not trying to convert anyone to my point of view. This is around me just trying to figure out what truth really is, and what those allegorical stories really mean. That's where I'm at, I guess.

Thinbudda, I do understand the archetypes concept - although my question around them seems more to be whether or not they are manifest in everyone's outer objective reality, or just within our individual minds. In other words, I don't want demons living in my toaster, or in my dog, or etc etc... lol!

Sometimes the spiritual mumbo-jumbo with all the talk of demons, YHWH, etc, just gets to be a bit much, rather intimidating and not what I would call helpful in my own take on reality. Plus, I really don't want to fall into a tempest of rituals, demon-thwarting, and the like (although I have and do battle my internal "demons", which is something else entirely).

I think the axiom "What is true for you is true for you" is applicable here. If you believe in ghosts and demons, then you will have the ability to "see" them, because you believe in them. If you don't, you will not see them, and they are not true for you. Real or not, I do know that people can lose themselves trying to fight off demons, real or imagined. I can start to understand how reading some "magickal" books can actually drive a person mad if they are not prepared to accept that information! There is a lot of material that is very complex, and also very threatening and frightening, giving dire warnings and such... enough to give anyone nightmares, and taken far enough would be enough to really drive a person into psychosis who is not prepared to protect themselves from the mental gymnastics it drives you through. Real (outer-world, physically manifested) demons vs. false (in the mind of the beholder) demons - it really matters little in the theatre of the mind. Actually practicing these rituals, I believe, could be very hazardous to the mind, and you might not even know it until it's already too late and the mind's wires have already been scrambled sufficiently to not be able to defend psychical attacks from hidden areas of our unconsciousness that we have artificially pumped up through ritual.

I keep hoping that there is something more tangible, safe, and easier. One that is repeatable - one that everyone can readily experience - one that signifies a reality of a spiritual dimension other than what we already know. Magick and/or mysticism seems to point that way, but I find it's through a haze of new-age crap and empty promises that don't seem to ever lead to their proposed destination - and of course, the final problem always is with the person, never the system. How conveeeeeeenient. ;)

Anyway, I'm feeling somewhat better tonight, and am still hopeful that the cards can be used to help in my search. I think they can. I just don't want to slide down a rabbit hole of trying to understand magick, astrology, alchemy, and other divination before I can even come close to knowing my "HGA". Sometimes I feel as if it's a dog chasing it's tail, or as the symbol for the two of disks represents, a snake eating it's tail. It feels like that alot to me.

Bill
Click to expand...

Bill,

If I may make a suggestion, perhaps before completely turning your back on everything maybe what is needed is a drastic reduction of the "noise". Before I had read two sentences of your post I got the impression of a huge amount of spiritual, emotional and mental you are on major and complete overload. I think that maybe you need to just get back to bare bones basics. Why don't you pack up all of those books and extemporaeneous stuff that you really don't need, want or are able to deal with right now and just keep your deck and go buy a nice new clean journal. Perhaps do some basic "where am I" and "what lesson do I need to learn right now" kind of spreads when you want and also spend some time with some of the major cards (perhaps your soul and/or personality cards or whichever card seems to want to "speak" to you) and do the excercise from Mary Greer's "Tarot for Yourself" book where you ask "what can you teach me" "What lesson do I need to learn" of who or whatever entity you want in the card then open your mind and spend 7 minutes (or however long you want) writing whatever pops into your head. You will be amazed at how coherent and timely the response is. I don't know if what is written on the page is a message from some higher plane or just from my own higher consciousness, it doesn't matter, the point is that it is wonderful therapy and a great way to get in touch with your own spirit. Forget the other stuff because ultimately, this is YOUR journey, no one elses. Those books can show us the path but we must walk it and when we walk sometimes we need to rest and sometimes, we need to branch off and make our own path lead only by our faith in ourselves. There are no right answers and no one has all the answers and anyone that says they have it all figured out is either lying, delusional or better have their affairs in order because they are about a half a second from death. This particular journey doesn't end til you take your last breathe in this world.

Do whatever it is that you need to do, but try not to give up.
 

Aeon418

billv said:
I'm just feeling lost, I guess I just don't have faith in much of anything any more. I'm not even sure what faith is.
Click to expand...
How about you start having faith in your self, Bill?

It sounds to me like you have lost or out grown your original beliefs but it's left a bit a void inside, and now you're looking for something that's going to fill it and take away the feeling of emptiness. That's the kind of experience that drives most people onto the spiritual path. The quest for meaning.

It's obvious that you've looked into Magick as a possible way to find meaning and purpose in your life, but from what you've said it sounds like you have a fairly warped idea of what Magick really is. That suggests to me a lot of book reading and very little practice. Magick is experiential. You only learn by doing. Have you started any basic rituals or meditation practices? They tend to have a grounding and centering effect that helps you find balance.

Your repeated mention of faith suggests that you want something to believe in. But Magick is not a faith like religion is. Yes, there are some religous elements, but they are generally aimed at getting you to see the deity within your self and not as some sort of force outside of yourself. Magick places the burden of responsibility directly on your own shoulders. Religion, the deistic ones that is, off loads personal responsibity on to some invisible sky god that you have to have blind faith in. There's a big difference between the two.
billv said:
I keep hoping that there is something more tangible, safe, and easier.
Click to expand...
If you are looking for safe and easy maybe Magick ain't for you because it's neither of those two. Much of the initial work in Magick is aimed at over comming inertia and laziness. That means forcing your self to do the same rituals and meditation practice day after day after day. It ain't easy.
 

billv

Thanks Aeon, I appreciate the advice. Both you and the others are correct, I am in major information and spiritual overload right now. I have started this week to slow down, focusing just on one aspect of the Tarot and not to get bogged down trying to figure everything out at once.

This week (when I wrote the first post) started out absolutely horribly for me. It has gotten better. My frustration level was really, really high with all of the stuff I was trying to absorb. Funny you mention my faith in myself - it has been shaken some this week as part of the events that unfolded in my life on Monday. But, I still feel like I'm heading in a good direction overall. I'm definitely scaling back, not trying to bite off the world at once.

As for magick, I do understand the differences between magick and traditional religion - although I will say that I'm not doing any rituals yet. Again, I think my trepidation around magick is my lack of experience, and I don't have someone experienced to help guide me in that way. I don't think it's a good idea to try to learn all by myself, either. And finally, I'm not quite convinced that magick is the path I should be taking, either. I need to let the answers to these questions come to me instead of trying to force them, tho. And, as they also say, when the student is ready a teacher will appear. I think that's good info.

>"It sounds to me like you have lost or out grown your original beliefs but it's left a bit a void inside, and now you're looking for something that's going to fill it and take away the feeling of emptiness. That's the kind of experience that drives most people onto the spiritual path. The quest for meaning."<

Wow, talk about hitting the nail on the head... damn! It's been this way for me for several years now. And I ebb and flow, drifting between agnosticism and athiesm, between belief in supernatural phenomenon and a dry, skeptical, scientific outlook on reality. Tarot can fit into either of those worldviews, but when you start combining it with magick, astrology, etc... Things start to get blurred and confusing. Especially when cursory looks at magickal texts reference God, YHWH, daemons and demons, etc... maybe I'm misinturpreting the texts, but I'm assuming that the texts are referring to what they consider to be REAL entities and not just manifistations of the sub or unconscious mind. When I say *real* I am talking about something outside of ourselves, something that could be seen by multiple people at the same time, some type of actual physical phenomenon.

Make sense? Anyway, these are the things I'm grappling with, and although I don't expect anyone to be able to give me definitive answers (which could only really come from myself in this case anyway) It's very interesting to get feedback. I already feel soooo much better than I did on Monday about everything.... it's good, and I appreciate all the comments.

bv
 

Alta

Moderator note

Hi billv,

I sent you a PM asking this, but as you have not read it, I'll have to post here.

I can see a tenuous link between your posts and the study of the Thoth deck, but it is slight. This Forum is specifically for the study of that deck, and I am leaning towards moving this thread to Spirituality. If you can clarify how your described situation is strongly linked to the Thoth deck, it can stay, otherwise I will move your thread.

Thanks,
Marion
Moderator of the Thoth Forum
 

billv

Hi Marion,

If you want to move the thread, that's fine. It is the Thoth deck that has led me to my current situation, but I can understand how this thread is really more about spirituality than the Thoth deck specifically.

Thanks,

Bill
 

Alta

Bill was a little more expansive in his PM relating this to the Thoth, and the thread can stay.

I will comment though that in general threads on one's sprirtual journey should be posted in Spirituality, if you are a subscriber. Otherwise I guess, off-forum.
 
Kwaw Li Ya was Crowley's Chinese alias Can someone explain these darn Thoth Courts?