Neptune in 2nd or 3rd?

Ronia

econdude said:
Neptune by house is the area of your life that tends to be imaginative and creative, but also represents a longing that can never be fulfilled. You might find that whatever your need or want by the house Neptune is in eludes you.

Why do you think so? For example, I have Neptune in the 11th but I've never lacked friends, on the contrary, this is one of the few things I've always had and good ones, Thank God! Neptune is far more than dreaming and floating around without direction or result, IMHO.

upawell

econdude said:
Neptune in the second shows a certain idealistic attitude towards material possessions and perhaps shows a dissatisfaction in owning material items or a feeling of frustration or indifference when you obtain something material that you thought you wanted.

Neptune in the third suggests nebulous communication, aimless wandering around town or idealistic networking, creative writing, etc.

Neptune by house is the area of your life that tends to be imaginative and creative, but also represents a longing that can never be fulfilled. You might find that whatever your need or want by the house Neptune is in eludes you.

Ronia said:
Why do you think so? For example, I have Neptune in the 11th but I've never lacked friends, on the contrary, this is one of the few things I've always had and good ones, Thank God! Neptune is far more than dreaming and floating around without direction or result, IMHO.

Thanks to you both for your respective inputs.

I think both can be helpful in the subtle discernment of Neptune's energy in each house. As Minderwiz said earlier in the thread (he was quoting someone I believe), something to the effect of: if you don't have strong natal Neptune aspects, this discernment can be tricky.

The impression I got from econdude's comment was that 'lack' could be one theme of Neptune in any given house, but that in certain houses, it leans in the direction of lack more often than not. I do think his point is relevant, because Neptune is an elusive planet and if the planet isn't well aspected or positioned, it could very well keep away the very need/want/desire created by having Neptune in a certain house.

2nd House is ruled by Taurus, house of self-worth and talents, money, possessions. Neptune's energies generally don't mix well in this house, so it is likely that lack is experienced when it comes to self-worth, money, possessions - or at least some degree of disassociation with these things. If it turns out that Neptune is in my 2nd I would say that it has been a struggle for me to come to terms with issues related to self-worth.

3rd House is ruled by Gemini. Neptune in the house of intellect and communications also creates an interesting alchemy. If it turns out that Neptune is in my 3rd I would say that this planet gives me a very right-brained flavour. Also, I have been known to wander around aimlessly and it is easy for me to forget things. Intuition is both my strength and weakness; sometimes it can be hard to "touch" reality, but the upside is I can churn out creative works fairly easily.

Neptune in the 11th is a pretty great position for it. Interesting friendships and strong personal ideals in the house of friendship. How lovely! I know someone with this placement and she not only has really remarkable close friends, she also has the ability to connect with all kinds of people. Really unexpected encounters, too.. but her Neptune is in harmonious aspect to Uranus and Pluto, I think.

***ETA: I just checked her chart. She has it in 11th but it's cusping the 12th. Hmm. Another house cusper. But I think her Neptune's expression is 11th house. 12th maybe, but it being such a private house I doubt I'd be able to suss it out anyhow. She'd probably agree with 11th house, though.

Ronia

upawell , I think anything can eb relevant but I'm interested on what it's based on. I try to read many charts and then compare my impressions to people's real life experiences, I'm trying to make my astrology more practical. The illusion, lack, delusion are all popular Neptune keywords but I have found very little practical evidence for them. In real life I've found out Neptune is much more about fluctuating, precisely like water. My money fluctuate but I can't really say they totally lack. My friendships fluctuate too, meaning they are there but nearly all of them have gone through extremes. It's calm one day, stormy next one, think of ocean. So, any house can be "great" for Neptune just like for any other planet but as keywords, I'm a bit disappointed that so many astrologers keep repeating the same without really giving any practical evidence or proof for it. Even if you take the Venus's rulerships of the 2nd, then take another mantra "Neptune is a higher octave of Venus", you can see that lack shouldn't be the issue. Just a suggestion.

I'm still waiting for anyone out there to prove to me that Neptune is elusive. Compared to, say, Venus. Or Moon. Not even to start on Jupiter. LOL

upawell

Ronia said:
upawell , I think anything can eb relevant but I'm interested on what it's based on. I try to read many charts and then compare my impressions to people's real life experiences, I'm trying to make my astrology more practical. The illusion, lack, delusion are all popular Neptune keywords but I have found very little practical evidence for them. In real life I've found out Neptune is much more about fluctuating, precisely like water. My money fluctuate but I can't really say they totally lack. My friendships fluctuate too, meaning they are there but nearly all of them have gone through extremes. It's calm one day, stormy next one, think of ocean. So, any house can be "great" for Neptune just like for any other planet but as keywords, I'm a bit disappointed that so many astrologers keep repeating the same without really giving any practical evidence or proof for it. Even if you take the Venus's rulerships of the 2nd, then take another mantra "Neptune is a higher octave of Venus", you can see that lack shouldn't be the issue. Just a suggestion.

I'm still waiting for anyone out there to prove to me that Neptune is elusive. Compared to, say, Venus. Or Moon. Not even to start on Jupiter. LOL

Hmmm, I do see what you mean. You make a good point.

What would be your take on Neptune in 2nd vs 3rd?

Ronia

My take would depend on what Neptune rules natally. The placement itself doesn't mean much to me if I don't know what the planet rules. It makes a big difference between Neptune in 2nd ruling 5th and Neptune in 2nd ruling 9th, to me. To me it's like knowing where the person lives without knowing their personality. Would you judge the person by his address?

Just my take, in a natal all matters, IMHO. But taken purely, say Neptune rules the 2nd and is in the 2nd, would make me think namely of fluctualtion, lack of permanence, here today, there tomorrow, and a certain extent of more charitable attitude, if badly aspected this may turn into ignorance but well aspected it gives the native an understanding of the "flow" (again a waterish keyword

) and often a good grasp of making money in "mysterious" ways to others. I only want to say that to me the 2nd is not only about material possessions but much more about what we value. I've noticed it working like that for me and for other people. What I value may be material but may be non material, it's still what I hold close and cherish. So, assuming Neptune rules my 2nd and is there, what I cherish may be quite fluctuating, including changing my opinion relatively often but for deep reasons, Neptune is not shallow, he's not Venus, also it will bring me treasures, often unforeseen logicvally but sensed intuitively, it will give a good luck in Neptunian money making (professions, for example, or good luck in money flowing). Same with the 3rd. To me Neptune is about fluctuation, come and go but much slower and more meaningful than the Moon's tides, creativity big deal, glamour, fame, thus success especially in material or self houses with good aspects, and Love, the phylosophical such, not the everyday one, the power of creation thus art.

upawell

Ronia said:
To me Neptune is about fluctuation, come and go but much slower and more meaningful than the Moon's tides, creativity big deal, glamour, fame, thus success especially in material or self houses with good aspects, and Love, the phylosophical such, not the everyday one, the power of creation thus art.

Thank you for this.

Ronia

upawell said:
Thank you for this.

No problem. But you know, it's just my opinion and based on a few charts. I don't think anyone has actually enough experience with Neptune to state it's whatever they say it is.

wind

Do you have siblings? Third house is about siblings as well. I have a friend with Neptune in 3th and she felt the 'losses' and sacrifices in regard to her sister for whom she needed to care and be responsible for from the early age. She 'lost' her childhood curiosity and explorations because she needed to take care of the sister - and it took her many years to let go and stop constantly worry what is happening to her, be overprotective.
Also, blurry mind and lack of 'scientific' perception and objectivity can be found here. Neptune is not so well in the third house, this is objective mind versus intutive mind (9th house).

As for the second house, it is true that Neptune in the 2nd gives you a lot of neptunian talents. I see second house as our inner mine, all ressources, all you have - and you have got talents, they are 'gifts', you 'possess them'. Neptune in the 2nd brings money if you work in neptunian profession

I am a strong pisces, my Neptune is in the 11th house and he rules my Sun, Moon, Venus and Mercury - and all of them, with the exception of the Moon, are in the second house. Also Neptune is tightly squaring my Sun. I have many 'piscean' talents - but I didn't really start earning and be financially at ease untill I started to do piscean things and put my talents into practice (teaching, translating, writing (that would be Mercury

), spiritual healing and counselling). Also, I spent a lot of money on neptunian things (art - my Venus in Pisces in 2nd house loves beautiful things, ornaments, nice objects, just for the sake of the beauty

, spiritual workshops, meditative groups, music...).

spiraling

Ronia said:
No problem. But you know, it's just my opinion and based on a few charts. I don't think anyone has actually enough experience with Neptune to state it's whatever they say it is.

Neptune is the highest rising point in my chart. The majority of my life has been set in a Neptunian haze, among both my subjective experiences and the more traditional definitions of its realm, and I wouldn't wish it upon my own enemy. It's certainly a mystical point.
I'm also highly right-brained, as someone else mentioned, which deals primarily with abstractions and the unconscious realm. (mercury retrograde square neptune)

Iunno, to have my observations discounted because it's found to be both personally unsatisfactory and too 'by the book' seems silly. The OP now seems too deluded to even properly define the term, and will forever 'wander' to figure it out. Which is what Neptune is: largely a delusional element.

Ronia

wind said:
Do you have siblings? Third house is about siblings as well. I have a friend with Neptune in 3th and she felt the 'losses' and sacrifices in regard to her sister for whom she needed to care and be responsible for from the early age. She 'lost' her childhood curiosity and explorations because she needed to take care of the sister - and it took her many years to let go and stop constantly worry what is happening to her, be overprotective.

It's about relatives, close surroundings as well as neighbours, etc.

I don't have Neptune in the 3rd but I've had quite a few wounds in that department. Which makes me wonder was it Neptune in her case? Because the mothering is not Neptunian and I usually see by the Moon who is going that way. Mothering is not exclusively related to giving birth to someone. I haven't personally noticed Neptune particularly to require sacrifice, I'd rather say that in its own way Neptune is quite selfish. I've grown up with Piscean people and am still surrounded by such.

All of them got what they wanted and keep doing so. Not in the pushy Marsian way but in a smooth and persistent way. Water against rock, we know who wins.

Do you think one planet in one house can explain her sacrifice? Where is her Moon, what aspects it has, etc. I'd look there. The 5th, the 6th, the 7th. Their rulers and aspects. Neptunians do have a charitable strike but if it goes all the way to sacrifice and especially to mother someone... I'd like to see something more than Neptune in the mix and namely a mothering planet/force as well as rulers of parenting and serving houses afflicted. because she clearly doesn't feel well as a result.

Because if we follow this path, then I should have sacrificed myself for my friends which is not the case. As much as I treasure them, there is only one person for whom I'd go that far and he's my child. And I don't have Neptune in the 5th.

Hm, I actually recalled a very close friend of mine's chart now and yes, I was right, he has Neptune in the 3rd. He has sisters, one of which is quite unhealthy. He's a rich man and supports her treatment. As an older brother, he is also quite used to protect her but I see this in nearly every older brother around me. However, he hasn's stopped travelling or pursuing his career to be next to her although she doesn't have good relationship with the rest of the family and he is her closest person. So, he both satisfies the charitable urge of Neptune and the selfish, me love me best, part is there too... I think he's a good example as his Neptune has no aspects. BTW, he is in a Neptunian profession too, much glamour and art.

spiraling , I critisize what I read in every single astrological cookbook out there without any practical evidence. If it happens to be part of your post, I didn't put it there but I still consider Neptune and all those cookbook keywords lacking proof. real life proof. I'll gladly read your observations and support from charts you've done which fit those keywords. Your own chart has far more than one Neptune in it. And it's not the only one with a prominent Neptune but not all of us are feeling bad because of it. Therefore, it doesn't prove anything yet.