Positive/Negative Interpretations (split from 'Red Flag' relationship warning cards)

headincloud

So essentially then every single card is a potential red flag in a relationship, I don't get it. How could there be other positive cards in the mix if they've all been assigned as a red flag. And why pin those meanings on those cards when there are already cards assigned to those meanings.
 

rwcarter

So essentially then every single card is a potential red flag in a relationship, I don't get it. How could there be other positive cards in the mix if they've all been assigned as a red flag. And why pin those meanings on those cards when there are already cards assigned to those meanings.

The construct of the thread is "red flags". As there are 78 cards in the standard deck, any of those cards could appear in that position. As readers, we often get positive cards in negative positions and vice versa. It's up to us to be able to interpret those cards. No one has said that the Sun, for example, is always a red flag in a relationship. But if the position is looking at red flags, then the Sun needs to be read within that framework.

Feel free to start a "Positive" relationship cards thread if you want to explore the positive meanings of all the cards. :)
 

headincloud

The construct of the thread is "red flags". As there are 78 cards in the standard deck, any of those cards could appear in that position. As readers, we often get positive cards in negative positions and vice versa. It's up to us to be able to interpret those cards. No one has said that the Sun, for example, is always a red flag in a relationship. But if the position is looking at red flags, then the Sun needs to be read within that framework.

Feel free to start a "Positive" relationship cards thread if you want to explore the positive meanings of all the cards. :)

Well perhaps the spread would need modifying, what if there are no red flags but you've forced a negative interpretation into the reading, there's no way to my understanding that the sun would signal a red flag and to twist the meanings to fit a negative assumption based on a hypothetical question seems silly, to me anyway.
 

obeygravity

Well perhaps the spread would need modifying, what if there are no red flags but you've forced a negative interpretation into the reading, there's no way to my understanding that the sun would signal a red flag and to twist the meanings to fit a negative assumption based on a hypothetical question seems silly, to me anyway.

I think it'd be doing a huge disservice to both us as readers as well as the cards to assume that cards aren't able to have layers to them. I don't think anyone is INSISTING that if a card shows up in a reading then we must look to see the negative so much as how, depending on the context of the reading and question, it could be seen that way.

I've personally come across times when The Sun was actually negative. It showed a situation where the person insisted on only seeing the bright side of things. And yes, optimism is great but there's a point in which we allow it to blind us, preventing us from seeing issues that are potentially rather blatantly in front of us all for the sake of being optimistic and carefree. Needless to say, when those darker things inevitably came to light (ha), they were not as ready to deal with the reality and clarity (haha) since they insisted so much on blinding (haaaa) themselves.

Too much of a good thing and all that jazz ;p
 

headincloud

I think it'd be doing a huge disservice to both us as readers as well as the cards to assume that cards aren't able to have layers to them. I don't think anyone is INSISTING that if a card shows up in a reading then we must look to see the negative so much as how, depending on the context of the reading and question, it could be seen that way.

I've personally come across times when The Sun was actually negative. It showed a situation where the person insisted on only seeing the bright side of things. And yes, optimism is great but there's a point in which we allow it to blind us, preventing us from seeing issues that are potentially rather blatantly in front of us all for the sake of being optimistic and carefree. Needless to say, when those darker things inevitably came to light (ha), they were not as ready to deal with the reality and clarity (haha) since they insisted so much on blinding (haaaa) themselves.

Too much of a good thing and all that jazz ;p

But surely what we're doing here is twisting a cards meaning into the context of the question so if we had a position in the spread for 'red flag' we've already decided to frame it through the negative connotation because that's what we're looking for.

Imo it's better to read the card with the traditional meanings because all possible interpretations are covered therein and the work has been done for us. If we go assigning the same meaning to different cards, doubling up essentially, it would be way too confusing for me but each to their own.

Great example is someone posted a spread asking for 3 things his partner liked in him, we'd expect from the question 3 shining qualities but that's not what presented itself, there's a possibility she was running him ragged and enjoying it. Temptation is to twist the meanings into a positive frame because that's what we're looking for and expect but there's no need to re frame the cards in light of the question, you read what you've got.
 

obeygravity

But surely what we're doing here is twisting a cards meaning into the context of the question so if we had a position in the spread for 'red flag' we've already decided to frame it through the negative connotation because that's what we're looking for.

Imo it's better to read the card with the traditional meanings because all possible interpretations are covered therein and the work has been done for us. If we go assigning the same meaning to different cards, doubling up essentially, it would be way too confusing for me but each to their own.

Great example is someone posted a spread asking for 3 things his partner liked in him, we'd expect from the question 3 shining qualities but that's not what presented itself, there's a possibility she was running him ragged and enjoying it. Temptation is to twist the meanings into a positive frame because that's what we're looking for and expect but there's no need to re frame the cards in light of the question, you read what you've got.

Not necessarily. I've done plenty of readings for people who have insisted that something was amiss and the cards time and time again insisted that everything was fine. I feel as though in situations like that, what negativity is shown usually reflects the querent's negative mindset, not the situation at large. Alternatively, I've had situations where people have obsessively insisted that, for example, someone was in love with them and the cards time and time again showed otherwise.

Our jobs as readers is to pull what we can from the cards regardless of what bias or attempt at pressing for an outcome someone may have. I think sticking to text book definitions personally is where a lot of readers falter. It restricts your ability to see finer details that can easily be overlooked if you go into each reading with a card auto being good and another auto being bad. I think it also automatically assumes that everyone uses the same deck and each deck reads the same. I own several and can pull up the same card across the board and the difference in how they're interpreted vary greatly from deck to deck.

On top of that but there are people who use other factors such as reversals or elemental dignities that can shift an otherwise seemingly positive set of cards into something that's full of red flags.

Ex:

A textbook reader pulling up a set of cards like Knight of Wands + Ace of Cups + Six of Wands + Queen of Swords + two of Pentacles might look at this and see a situation where someone finds a new love filled situation with someone passionate that can help them feel secure. That these two people will find a way to mesh their lives together and juggle their differences. But what I immediately see is either a love affair where someone is being juggled and the other person is really just looking to fluff up their ego. Again this would also depend on the deck I use since not all of mine care for elemental dignities, but it's important to look at the bigger picture and be open to the different ways seemingly positive cards can be read.
 

Barleywine

I try to give my interpretations in an even-handed way that offers the client something to chew on, and I agree that context is important to the client, if not always to me. Since I never ask for a question or topic of interest in advance, I leave it up to my clients to fit my observations into their own understanding of their personal reality, and then I entertain questions that aid them in doing that. I approach a challenging card as both a potential obstacle and an opportunity, usually by starting with "This card often means . . ." and then shifting the perspective to other possibilities that are more constructive and hopefully more empowering. If a client is adamant that something isn't what the cards insist it is, I will find a way to bring the incompatible viewpoints to some kind of middle ground that acknowledges both. There is almost always a layer of meaning that fits the situation, and I find most of my clients willing to work with me to find it. After all, they're paying for the privilege.
 

Barleywine

Well perhaps the spread would need modifying, what if there are no red flags but you've forced a negative interpretation into the reading, there's no way to my understanding that the sun would signal a red flag and to twist the meanings to fit a negative assumption based on a hypothetical question seems silly, to me anyway.

If I'm using a spread that doesn't have negative positions (obstacles, challenges, etc), I will use reversals and Elemental Dignities to adjust the nature of a card's influence, not so much in positive or negative terms, but in the sense of its mode of delivery, potency and purity of expression.
 

headincloud

Not necessarily. I've done plenty of readings for people who have insisted that something was amiss and the cards time and time again insisted that everything was fine. I feel as though in situations like that, what negativity is shown usually reflects the querent's negative mindset, not the situation at large. Alternatively, I've had situations where people have obsessively insisted that, for example, someone was in love with them and the cards time and time again showed otherwise.

Not sure how this is relevant.

Our jobs as readers is to pull what we can from the cards regardless of what bias or attempt at pressing for an outcome someone may have.

My point exactly.

I think sticking to text book definitions personally is where a lot of readers falter. It restricts your ability to see finer details that can easily be overlooked if you go into each reading with a card auto being good and another auto being bad.

But text book definitions don't paint the cards as automatically good or bad, they give you the energy of the card and they give you as finer detail as you can possibly handle. I see the sun card upright as a welcome positive energy energy in a spread, why try putting a negative connotation on it, surely the sun doesn't change it's energy from spread to spread but the dynamics of the surrounding will have been different highlighting false optimism but don't pin the star rx which is unfounded optimism on to the sun, there's already a card assigned to that meaning.

I think it also automatically assumes that everyone uses the same deck and each deck reads the same. I own several and can pull up the same card across the board and the difference in how they're interpreted vary greatly from deck to deck.

If we're reading the same person the bottom line would be the same.

On top of that but there are people who use other factors such as reversals or elemental dignities that can shift an otherwise seemingly positive set of cards into something that's full of red flags.

Not if their reading skills are sound.

A textbook reader pulling up a set of cards like Knight of Wands + Ace of Cups + Six of Wands + Queen of Swords + two of Pentacles might look at this and see a situation where someone finds a new love filled situation with someone passionate that can help them feel secure. That these two people will find a way to mesh their lives together and juggle their differences.

How do you know? cos I'm not seeing that.

But what I immediately see is either a love affair where someone is being juggled and the other person is really just looking to fluff up their ego. Again this would also depend on the deck I use since not all of mine care for elemental dignities, but it's important to look at the bigger picture and be open to the different ways seemingly positive cards can be read.

I politely disagree, if you know the energies and rote meanings of all the cards you see the interaction but a cards energy is inherent, it doesn't change, orientations and dynamics do.
 

Thirteen

I politely disagree, if you know the energies and rote meanings of all the cards you see the interaction but a cards energy is inherent, it doesn't change, orientations and dynamics do.
Could you give an example of what you mean by this? I think the two of you may be saying the same thing, but not quite seeing it without a specific example.