More questions.
I know this is a lot of questions and I pondered whether it would be easier for you all in one post like this, or in separate posts. Please let me know if it's easier in separate posts; I want it to be as easy as possible for you. I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say we're truly grateful for all the time and effort you're putting into this, and for your patience with us.
Thanks Lee. I don't mind how you present your questiions - I'd much rather people raised issues as and when they arise, rather than letting it go over their heads - in a classroom I can tell if people are understanding or not from the expression on their faces, and when it's time to start again with some fresh examples. Here I'm dependent on direct questions to know what bits need revisiting and what bits are understood. So your questions are just what I need - honestly
Lee said:
How do you spot a Void of Course Moon? As the Moon moves through the sign, of course the other planets are in motion as well, so I'm having a hard time with how one would figure out whether it will make aspects to other planets before it changes sign.
The key is that the planet to which the Moon applies is either in an appropriate sign (that is one sextile, square, trine or in opposition to the Moon's current sign) and in a later degree than the Moon or in a very early degree of the 'next' sign
and within the Moon's orb at it's current location. For example Moon at 20 degrees Capricorn will aspect any planet in Capricorn at a later degree, or any planet in Pisces, Aries, Taurus or Cancer which is also further on than 20 degrees. To shorten the process look for planets in a greater degree of their sign than the Moon and rule out any in the next sign on (Aquarius in this case) or in the sign before the Moon's opposition (Gemini in this case) for your initial check.
If no planet exists in the last 10 degrees of those signs, then remember that the Moon's orb is 12 degrees, look for any planet at 2 degrees or less in Aquarius (the Moon is applying to a conjunction) Aries (the Moon is applying to a sextile), Taurus (the Moon is applying to a square), Gemini (the Moon is applying to a trine), and Leo (the Moon is applying to an opposition). That might sound complicated but I just chec firstly for any planet in an early degree of a sign and if I find one I check to see if it's a major aspect away from the Moon's next sign and within the Moon's current orb.
I'd always use a visual check rather than rely on software - Solar Fire will tell me that the Moon is VOC but on inspection I can see that a manor aspect is forming to a planet out of sign. What matters is the application process has started. This would be also be true if we shifted the Moon to 29 degrees of Capricorn, it be well into the application to a planet at 2 degres, as described above. I've just rechecked Lilly and he simply requires application before the sign change. So add 12 degrees to the Moon's current degree and if that takes
you into the next sign just check for planets in that degree or lower as described above. Do not consider the orbs of the planet that the Moon is applying too, just use the Moon's orb alone.
Lee said:
A bit confused by this... in response to SilentBreeze's question you said that we really only look at where the planet's row and column intersect. I just want to be sure there's not some significance I'm missing in terms of what Venus's score, Mars's score, etc. is for Saturn.
The intersection of the planet's row and column give you it's essential dignity if any. It also tells you if the planet is Peregrine (nothing in that cell). Sadly it doesn't tell you if it's in Fall or Detriment, as Solar Fire does.
The values in the other cells for Venus, Mars etc I'll deal with below in answer to your follow up question.
Lee said:
I'm not understanding how Venus, Mars and Jupiter come into it -- unless it relates to my question above? In that case I sort of understand it, but I don't really understand what it means to say that Venus scores 5 in Saturn's row. I think there's some relationship there that I'm not grasping. Is it simply saying that if Venus were in that spot, it would score 5?
Using Venus as the example, its score of 5 in Saturn's row means that Saturn is in a sign ruled by Venus - either Taurus or Libra - we know from the chart that Saturn is in Libra and we have this confirmed by the '4' in Saturn's cell) So Venus is the sign ruler at the place where Saturn is. The same holds for any other planet that has a score in Saturn's row. Thus the 1 for Jupiter means that Saturn is in the Face or Decan of Jupiter and the 2 for Mars, means that Saturn is in the terms of Mars. The scores from other planets may help you in determining interest or motive if you wish to make use of Frawley's approach but at this stage I would say ignore that. The other use is to check for a mutual reception. We'll look at that later, but for the moment we'll ignore it too.
Lee said:
Is there any easy way to spot applying or separating aspects if they are out of orb? An aspect may not show up as an aspect on the aspect grid. Do we just need to manually, as it were, scan the grid and look for numbers close to the aspect degrees?
Don't bother with aspects that are out of orb they don't affect the reading to any extentat this stage' or even at most stages. The only time they have any real input now is if you are checking the Moon's VOC in which case any planet further on in the same sign as the Moon stops it from being VOC even if the conjunction is not yet applying.
Lee said:
Is the reason planets in the 12th house can't be seen from the 1st house because it's the next house over?
Exactly right!!! The same would strictly speaking hold for the second, sixth and eighth houses, none of whic makes a major aspect to the Ascendant. The twelfth also has the connotations of being concerned with hidden or secret things. That is probably derived from it being inconjunct to the Ascendant.
Lee said:
I can't help asking, what about if it were a same-sex relationship?
That's a good question and certainly one that I've never seen a traditional Astrologer read for - you won't find one in Lilly LOL. I would use the same two additional significators of Venus and the Sun. Again strictly speaking these significators are used in marriage questions but we now have civil partnerships for same sex couples, and indeed the civil ceremony or a religious ceremony is not needed to establish some rights for all couples (depending on jurisdiction).
Lee said:
I was unsure what you meant by "perfected" and "perfection" here.
'Perfected' is when the aspect is completed - the two planets occupy the same degree of their relative signs (or the same sign if it's a conjunction). The aspect 'perfected' between significators is a sign that the question asked about will be brought to 'perfection' - the matter will be resolved favourably. It's not the only criterion but it's a good one.
Leel said:
SilentBreeze has good questions here, I wondered about them as well.
I must admit I didn't get round to answering that one and I'll be the gentleman and reply separately to SilentBreeze's question
Lee said:
One more question -- I was curious as to the best way to handle accidental dignities. Not to sound lazy, but it seems like a lot of work to go down the list for each significator to figure its accidental dignity score. (Although I suppose once one is accustomed to it, it's probably not as much work as it seems when it's all new.) Do Janus or Solar Fire automatically calculate these? Or is it better for us to do them manually, so as to learn what they're really about?
Janus does given the calculations of Accidental Dignities but Solar Fire does not. I usually consider house position, whether retrograde or direct, whether combust or under the beams and whether in partile trine or sextile to Jupiter and Venus or partile square or opposition to Mars and Saturn.
All of those are easily spotted from the chart. I will only use orentality or speed if it is going to make a difference (that is there's no clear evidence as yet that the matter will come about and I decide that it's worth doing additional checks) In your case I wouldn't bother with these yet. The sam goes for aspects with fixed stars.
Lee said:
There certainly is!
I knew this would be hard but it's even harder than I thought. A challenge for sure!
What we need is a few more questions to work through, so can I suggest you think of a question, cast the chart and post it in this thread. Then we can work through it together, with some comments and questions from others I hope. Don't try to do everything at once, just check that you can ask a question that is clear, can cast a chart and hopefully identify the significators (not always easy) then we'll work through together.