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The Happy Squirrel  The Happy Squirrel is offline
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Hello hello

The first one is quoted from inside the booklet, the back of the first page.

The second one is just my sub-heading of the discussion which followed, so I was not quoting anything there

Speaking of which, given that copyright year is not printing year, given that Longobardica booklet made references to Kaplan's Italian book for the 'replacement' images of Devil, Tower, and Knight of Coins, and, given that not until 1975 (copyright year?) 2nd ed US Games were those images made available in full coloured painting, it must be concluded that the Longobardica edition copyright 1974 was printed after US Games 1st ed. copyright 1974.

So I must revised my previous theory. As you mentioned, there was probably some kind of arrangement between Longobardica and US Games in 1974 about sharing the right to the original images and all the bits and bobs (like packaging). My current theory is that US Games chose to run printing before the 'replacement cards' were created fully, but after right of images were shared between USG and Longobardica. Longobardica however might have waited for Kaplan to arrange 'replacement cards' before printing their decks. This can explain why the Devil, Tower, and Knight of Coins images in the Longobardica booklet made references to Kaplan. This will also explain why Longobardica has 1974 copyright year but included images that did not turn up with the USG deck until a 1975 copyright year. The Longobardica deck which says copyright 1974 would have probably been printed in or after 1975, after Kaplan copyrighted / created the replacement cards (Devil, Tower, Knight of Coins). It is possible that their arrangements in 1974 included any future 'replacement cards' that USG will create. It is possible that Longobardica gave USG the right to the original Visconti images (more likely for this to happen than the other way around), and in the same agreement (or not) requested the right to USG's upcoming replacement images.
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Abrac  Abrac is offline
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Thanks for the clarification. Things are gellin'.

A lot of your ideas make sense to me. One thing I would add is I think the 1974 Longobardica copyright applies to the booklet and doesn't say anything about when the complete set was published. Usually there's a progression. First, the cards are created, then copyrighted. Second, the booklet's created, then copyrighted. Lastly, the set is released to the public. So it's common to see different copyright and publication dates. The copyright date in a booklet always applies to the booklet itself unless it specifically says otherwise.

Some things are still mysterious, but I'm sure the Longobardica 1974 copyright is for the booklet; that's one mystery solved.
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The Happy Squirrel  The Happy Squirrel is offline
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Oooh really? So the copyright years in booklets only refer to the booklet and not the deck in all cases? Or just in this case with Longobardica?

Hm. So we have no way of knowing when a deck is created or published....?

Thanks for that explanation Abrac. That is useful to know indeed!

I suppose this is why more recent USG decks have copyright print on each of their cards. I just inspected my Phantasmagoric Theatre deck and the booklet says 1999 and the cards have US Games copyright 1998 on them. Can't see any year on the box. Copyright prints on cards such as tarot can be an unwelcomed distraction. But I suppose at least we can tell from which period they originated.
Top   #23
Abrac  Abrac is offline
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In every case I know of the copyright in a booklet refers to the booklet unless it says otherwise. Normally the year of publication is the same year as the booklet or the following year. I don't know too many cases (if any) where it was longer than that.

It's the same thing with those reprint numbers in booklets. They refer to the booklet, not the cards. But they're a pretty good guide since booklets are created for decks and they come as a unit. The only problem might be is if you get a used deck and someone has slipped in a booklet that didn't originally come with that deck, but usually it's reliable.
Top   #24
Abrac  Abrac is offline
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I found some pictures of a mint Monumenta Longobardica. The cards may have been opened and looked at but they're still in cellophane. I'd never seen it before, but having seen it, I must say it's a very nice-looking set.

Monumenta Longobardica 1

Monumenta Longobardica 2

Monumenta Longobardica 3

Monumenta Longobardica 4

Monumenta Longobardica 5
Top   #25
The Happy Squirrel  The Happy Squirrel is offline
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Thanks for those images! That one is certainly in a very good condition!
Now I am curious if this is exactly the same as USG 1ed.
If anyone has images for USG 1ed it would be so good to take a look
Top   #26
Wardi7  Wardi7 is offline
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I just got the LS Visconti deck; little disappointed by the Devil. I was looking for the deck that had the more Dante-esque version, the one with the Devil devouring (if I remember correctly) another demon. Anyone know which one I'm talking about?
Top   #27
Abrac  Abrac is offline
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The one you're talking about with this Devil is an earlier version. Mine has an information card with a 1995 copyright. I've seen the publication date listed as 1997 and also 1998.

There's a little more info in this PDF I posted earlier.

http://tarotforum.net/showpost.php?p...14&postcount=1

For whatever it's worth, I kinda like the Devil in the second edition. The one in the first edition is definitely more intense but there's something about the other one I like.
Top   #28
Wardi7  Wardi7 is offline
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I feel like the 1st ed one is a little more authentic; like something that would be used in the 15th century. Thanks for the help!
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3ill.yazi  3ill.yazi is offline
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I like the first ed one, but the newer edition does look more in line with what we are used to from TdM and RWS
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