'Tarot' meaning 'hole-maker'?

Zephyros

I don't see how it can be, without all those layers, to say so is kind of "intuitive puritanism." The images on the RWS, which influenced every subsequent deck are in themselves layered and have a purpose and that purpose came before the images; the only neutral decks are the ones predating that, the old Marseilles decks. I find it interesting people would simultaneously acknowledge Waite's contribution to modern Tarot while dismissing everything on the cards and approaching the images as if they were created in a vacuum.

To each his own, of course, but it is wrong to say that all that stuff was simply "added on," unless one means added on to the Marseilles. Modern Tarot decks are a completely different animal.
 

Richard

........To each his own, of course, but it is wrong to say that all that stuff was simply "added on," unless one means added on to the Marseilles. Modern Tarot decks are a completely different animal.
Yes and no. The interesting thing is that modern Tarot (such as Rider-Waite) was implicit in the older decks, but speculation about that does not belong in this Historical Research forum. The Introduction to Liber Θ explains about the difference between exoteric and esoteric Tarot history. My primary interest is in the latter, which now properly belongs in the TT forum, alongside such scintillating threads as Deck of the Week Signup.

......I find it interesting people would simultaneously acknowledge Waite's contribution to modern Tarot while dismissing everything on the cards and approaching the images as if they were created in a vacuum........
Don't bother us with the facts, closrapexa. }) :D
 

Richard

I find the tarot in itself enough, without heaping layer upon layer of extra stuff on it. And i also don't care for the holier-than-thou attitude of some of its adherents. But what do i know, I've only been studying tarot for 20 years...
Maybe these 'Tarot Special Interest' forums are more for the lunatic fringe of Tarot fanciers. In the past I have wandered into the other Tarot forums and posted some esoteric stuff, only to be ignored by most and insulted by a few. I think what we have to recognize is that different people have different concepts of what Tarot is all about. It seems that you are satisfied with the more exoteric aspects of Tarot, and that is a good thing. I'm just one of the loonies who tries to get beneath the surface of things and sometimes crashes through the surface into hell. I'm certainly hell-ier (but not holier) than thou.

FYI, I bought my first Tarot deck (Albano-Waite) around the year 1969 at a metaphysical bookshop on Telegraph Avenue in Berkeley California. That, in itself, doesn't mean that I know squat about Tarot.
 

Richard

I wish I had $1.00 USD for every time I have seen reference to supposedly extraneous esoteric material being "layered" or "piled" onto Tarot by occultists. It is always stated in a very disapproving context, as if the "layering" were an evil deed perpetrated and perpetuated by criminals. It is almost as if wanting to understand something from a more spiritual perspective were insufferably snobby and perhaps even sociopathic. It does no good to say that one only wants to understand what was meant by the author of the deck, because that is countered by the statement that what the author intended is totally irrelevant. I really think that statement is inexcusable, but I have seen it over and over in these forums.

If someone doesn't want to learn what's going on with the so-called "layering," why on earth would they assume a defensive and derisive posture instead of just going on their merry way? If you try to explain, they may pay no attention anyhow, because they have already made up their mind. Nobody really cares what they think, but it is singularly unpleasant to have one's philosophical assumptions attacked by people who don't understand (or really care) a damn thing about it.

ETA. This rant was not directed at any specific individual but at a strange, somewhat aggressive, know-nothing mindset which is all too prevalent among Tarot users.
 

ravenest

Brother Rantulus,

Let me council you concerning your way amongst us;

Think not of 'why on earth'

Thou who hast trials and troubles, rejoice because of them, for in them is Strength, and by their means is a pathway opened unto that Light.

How should it be otherwise, O man, whose life is but a day in Eternity, a drop in the Ocean of time; how, were thy trials not many, couldst thou purge thy soul from the dross of earth?

Is it but now that the Higher Life is beset with dangers and difficulties; hath it not ever been so with the Sages and Hierophants of the past? They have been persecuted and reviled, they have been tormented of men; yet through this also has their Glory increased.

Rejoice therefore, O Initiate, for the greater thy trial the greater thy Triumph. When men shall revile thee, and speak against thee falsely, hath not the Master said, “Blessed art thou!”?
 

Richard

Brother Rantulus,

Let me council you concerning your way amongst us;

Think not of 'why on earth'

Thou who hast trials and troubles, rejoice because of them, for in them is Strength, and by their means is a pathway opened unto that Light.

How should it be otherwise, O man, whose life is but a day in Eternity, a drop in the Ocean of time; how, were thy trials not many, couldst thou purge thy soul from the dross of earth?

Is it but now that the Higher Life is beset with dangers and difficulties; hath it not ever been so with the Sages and Hierophants of the past? They have been persecuted and reviled, they have been tormented of men; yet through this also has their Glory increased.

Rejoice therefore, O Initiate, for the greater thy trial the greater thy Triumph. When men shall revile thee, and speak against thee falsely, hath not the Master said, “Blessed art thou!”?
I bow to my brother's profound words of wisdom, but I'm still pissed! })
 

Richard

A card game.
What :?::!: I thought Tarot was a fortune telling deck (like the Lenormand or Gypsy Witch), before the damned occultists globbed on all that astrology and kabbalah stuff. :rolleyes: