History of layouts

Ross G Caldwell

Very nice discovery kwaw, thanks!

Directed to be in the "Persons in the Drama" are "Three Women who tell Fortunes by Coffee, Tea, Cards, &c."

Folly says on pages 10-11:
First we'll examine the decrees of Fate,
In mystic Coffe-Cups and Tea reveal'd;
Then new-invented Arts of Snuff and Cards,
Shall all be try'd, the grand Event to shew,
If we, my Friends, shall conquer, or the Foe.

Readings then start with Coffee dregs (pp. 13-14) for various women.

The card reading kwaw reports starts on page 14 (note it is "she" who lays the cards, not a "he").

The layout described is not entirely clear to me. I'll have to puzzle it out a bit.

But a lovely discovery nonetheless.

Ross
 

Ross G Caldwell

Ross G Caldwell said:
The layout described is not entirely clear to me. I'll have to puzzle it out a bit.

The 1730 method described by the author of the play uses the whole pack of 52 cards, and seems to follow these steps:

1) pick a significator (Folly picks the Queen of Hearts for herself),
2) cut the pack (it must have been preshuffled),
3) lay out the entire pack in rows (how many is not said),
4) find the significator(s),
5) interpret the cards around it.

Spades is the only ill-omened suit. The Knave of Spades is said to "lie obliquely". I interpret this to mean that he is upside-down (double-headed cards having yet to be invented).

Ross
 

kwaw

Ross G Caldwell said:
The 1730 method described by the author of the play uses the whole pack of 52 cards, and seems to follow these steps:

1) pick a significator (Folly picks the Queen of Hearts for herself),
2) cut the pack (it must have been preshuffled),
3) lay out the entire pack in rows (how many is not said),
4) find the significator(s),
5) interpret the cards around it.

Spades is the only ill-omened suit. The Knave of Spades is said to "lie obliquely". I interpret this to mean that he is upside-down (double-headed cards having yet to be invented).

Ross

"lie obliquely" I was interpreting as being in a line diagonal from the Queen of Hearts, with the Ten of Hearts between them, giving at least three rows; but it could be meant as reversed.
 

Ross G Caldwell

kwaw said:
"lie obliquely" I was interpreting as being in a line diagonal from the Queen of Hearts, with the Ten of Hearts between them, giving at least three rows; but it could be meant as reversed.

I like your interpretation better. Unless there is some information missing (likely), I would guess a rectangle of four rows of thirteen cards each. However, it could be some other form of rows as well.

Quite a juicy description really.

Ross
 

kwaw

Ross G Caldwell said:
Quite a juicy description really.

Ross

Yes I think so too; while I think the interpretation of 'oblique' is more likely to mean the diagonal line, the interpretation of 'upside down' would make it even juicier in that it has the appeal of giving us one of the earliest examples not only of the card reading concepts of significators and layouts but of reversals too ~
 

kwaw

A fine tradition - retrospective reading:)

kwaw said:
The Knave of Spades, Madam, seems to threaten Danger, but he lies oblique, and the Ten of Hearts between them shews he wants Power to hurt you --


It is Jack who represents danger to the Queen of Folly, therefore we may in this context take the knave of spades to be the signifier of Jack; interesting coincidence that it is the 10 of Hearts that lay between Jack and the Queen of Hearts, as we learn in the development of the story that Jack is not only in the city but outside the walls of the Queens home as her fortune is being told, and the 10 of hearts is traditionally a significator of one's town and home.

Not sure how old this meaning of the 10 of hearts is, but if we allow correspondence between 10 of hearts and 10 of cups then it goes back to at least to Etteilla;

ETTEILLA: Town, City, Homeland, Country, Market Town, Village, Place, Site, Dwelling Place, House, Residence.—Citizen, Citizenry, Town Resident.

(In Etteilla's Piquet meanings 1770, 10 of Hearts means town, 10 of Clubs means home - WPC, decker, dummet, depaulis p.75)

oblique = slanting or crosswise, 10 hearts home town =jack of spades crossing home town towards you ;)
 

kwaw

"You know," says the young Sybille in Œuvres de M. de B*** By Beaumanoir 1770, "that I love so much to explain the dreams..." (Vous sçavez que j'aime tant à expliquer les rêves) but beside having the science to penetrate the mysteries of dreams she can also "... draw the cards to discern good fortune..." (& je tirerai les cartes pour sçavoir sa bonne fortune)...

...She selects randomly from cards thrown on the table and arranges them in order... she remains a moment in speculation, "then in a persuasive tone she said, showing me the Jack of heart, ah! There you are, sir, much in love with the beauty you see, showing me the Queen of Clubs... then laying her finger on the Queen of Spades, this other one crosses your love, but you triumph, everyone laughs a lot at the prognostics of our young Sybille..."

Cela est trop juste, dit-elle, en se jettant sur un jeu de cartes qui étoit sur la table ; & en ayant tiré plusieurs au hasard & arrangé avec ordre, elle reste un moment dans la spéculation ; puis, d'un ton persuasif, elle me dit, en me montrant le Valet de cœur, ah ! vous voilà, Monsieur, très-amoureux de la beauté que vous voyez, en me montrant encore la Dame de trefle, dont vous avez toute la tendresse; puis portant le doigt sur la Dame de pique, cette autre-là traversera vos amours, mais vous en triompherez, Tout le monde rit beaucoup des pronostics de notre jeune Sybille, & tout sut pris en plaisanterie, suivant l'usage que j'avois établi dans la société.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=4VoGAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA161&dq=&as_brr=3&ie=ISO-8859-1#PPA161,M1
 

kwaw

To the lovely Pallas

quote:

"A few Days ago, I took it into my Head to " make a Visit to the celebrated Therefius, in order to be informed of my Deftiny. Help
thyfelf to a Seat, faid he, my Friend, fit down, and give me thy Hand. He pored on it for a confiderable while, caft a Figure, faid not one Word, but ordered me to return the next Day. His Silence feemed to me very ominous, and to portend me no Good; yet I much rather chofe to be at once acquainted with my ill Fortune, than to continue longer in a fufpenceful Uncertainty. I therefore very importunately prefled him to let me know his Reafon for giving me no Anfwer to my Quere. Still the old Cuff was mute, making no manner of Reply, but reaching a Pack of Cards, fat down by me, and challenged me to play a Game with him at Piquet; the which, heavy-hearted and out of Humour as I was, I could not, nay durft not well refufe.

Well.— We cut; he has the Hand ; I deal; he takes five, and leaves me three.— I find in my Hand a Quint in Hearts, three Kings, three Knaves, the Queen of Diamonds, and three Spades which I difcarded. A promifing Game! Great Hopes ! But, Morbleu! Not one Ace in the three Cards I took in !— Faith, Madam ; I beg your Pardon for fwearing; but it was so curfedly provoking, that I cannot keep my Temper when ever I think of it.

Sixty five? fays he. Good. A Quint to a Knave ? Equal. He then fpreads
out upon the Table feven Diamonds.. Sixty five are feven, fays my Antagonift, very gravely; a Quatorzeof Aces, fourteen more. All good, cries I, with a deep Sigh. Diamonds, fays he, playing his Ace, twenty-two, and plays out all his Diamonds running.' Down went my Queen, accompanied with two Clubs and four Hearts. He next plays his Ace of Clubs, and that quite confounds me ; for, the moft unluckily in the World, I had left my King unguarded. He redoubles upon me with the Ten of Clubs ; I fling him a Spade. Next, upon his Ace of Hearts, I give my Knave, flill depending upon faving the Lurch, fcarce doubting of his having the Queen. My King of Spades next falls a Victim to his Ace.— But, how was I Thunder-ftruck ! How were all my Hopes blafled! The Devil a Bit of the Queen of Hearts had he, and poor Charles found himfelf Capoted.

I have won the Game, faid he.. From hence learn thy Deftiny. If you muft love, pitch upon fome Object that is more your Match: For if ever you attack the divine Pallas, you will infallibly be Lurched. Heaven take thee into it's Protection: Thus we parted.

end quote from:

Whartoniana; or, Miscellanies, in verse and prose. By the Wharton family, and several other persons of distinction [Tr. from the Fr. by J. Morgan. Ed. by E. Curll].
edited by Edmund Curll
Translated by Joseph Morgan
Published by , 1727

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=4aADAAAAQAAJ&printsec=titlepage
 

Teheuti

What wonderful gems you've found for us, Kwaw. Thank you for sharing them with us.
 

Moonbow

I would like to use some old layouts/spreads and see how I get on with them. I've used something similar to a Lenormand spread for Tarot reading in the past and it proved to be good for practicing the interactions between the cards. But does anyone know either the earliest or an early spread which can be used for today's issues.

For example, using the Mitelli deck I've tried adapting the Bolognese method as posted by Ross at Tarotpedia, but with meanings like 'knock on the door' and 'under the cups' (ok these are perhaps a little more extreme than some of the others), it just doesn't fit. Can anyone point me to other early spreads?