connection trumps and golden ratio?

Hello all,

Its been a while that I posted on this forum. Didn't know my username and password anymore, so, i created a new account. Tarot symbolism had always my interest, but the past few years, things were low profile on the tarot. Lately I was some cleaning up and found some old papers with some ideas from me concerning the symbolism/structure in the Marseille Tarot (Conver). So I thought: I post them on the forum, just to see what other peoples thoughts on it would be.
These are just ideas, thoughts, not theories with evidence. Its not about the origins of tarot, but (maybe) origins of the conver tarot. I have to admit that I used the cards from Camoin in my theory and I have not checked if the theory “works” for the Conver or other Marseille tarot.
So…again, just thoughts, no proof, and maybe its all a coincidence but I am curious what others think of it. If there is any truth in it, or it makes any sense of it by a few people here on the forum, maybe its a thing that others can futher explore.

So alright..here are my thoughts:

A while back I asked myself the question: is there a correlation between the trumps and the golden ratio/golden number (phi)/golden spiral. I made myself a spiral on transparent paper and lay it on a diagram of the trumps (3x7, Camoin).
Well, there were some interesting things I saw.
First of all, when you draw some lines at 0.618th (phi) part of the diagram http://detarot.blogspot.nl/p/afbeeldingen.html you see that these lines coincide with certain things on the cards, like the eyes on the Devil (knees/belly), hands cut off etc. There are a lot of things that coincide with these lines, wich makes you think that there is a structure based on the golden ratio in the trumps. (I did this also with the seperate cards and came to the same conclusion but my papers on this topic are (still) gone..)..http://translate.google.nl/translat...l=nl&tl=en&u=http://www.detarot.blogspot.com/

Then, I draw a golden spiral on the diagram. Well, that was very interesting too..
The line crossed some words/letters of the names of the cards..and this is what you get:

E (Le Diable)
REUR (L Empereur)
PAPE (Le Pape)
The “rightarm” of N in TemperaNce (wich can be a Tau wich means “end” in Hebrew.
XX (Jugement)
X (Pendu)
And finaly, the lozenge/rhombus in card XX. http://translate.google.nl/translat...l=nl&tl=en&u=http://www.detarot.blogspot.com/

If you put these letters next to each other, you get this:

ereur, pape, T,(the right arm of N in TemperaNce) XX, X, rhombus/lozenga.

“ereur”: free translation “wrong/misstake” in Frech.
So:
wrong Pope
the end/death
666 (since x is the 24th (2+4=6) letter in the alphabet)).
Rhombus/Lozenge (which is a old female symbol and means “spinning around/turning around)).

: the wrong pope is evil (666) dead or end it..
Look at the female principle (rhombus).

Or, wrong pope (patriarchal) , evil, dead/ends, and reverse things (matriarchal).

So what are your thoughts? Does it make any sense? Is it farfetched? Again, some thoughts, nothing more, nothing less..

Greetings

Patrick

Sacred geometry was very popular in the middle ages, and renaissance artists created their paintings on basis of geometry. That the golden mean was taken serious, is made clear by Leonardo Da Vinci for example:http://www.mathematicianspictures.com/images_200/200w_MATH_P_DVMON.jpg.

The rest is creative, but very farfetched.

Wilfried Houdouin theorizes that another sacred geometrical structure may be underlying the Marseille trumps and courts: Metatron's Cube, which is unrelated mathematically to the Golden Ratio.

The Metatron's Cube and the Golden Mean

LRichard said:

The Metatron's Cube is unrelated mathematically to the Golden Ratio.

Click to expand...

Hello Everyone,

Thanks for referring to my work.

As a matter of fact the Metatron's Cube is absolutely related to other Golden Ratio, as on one hand it is the very matrix of the Platonic volumes, which do embed the Golden ratio (especially within the icosahedron and the dodecahedron), and as on another hand the cube itself, which is one of these volumes, does embed the Golden Ratio in its harmonics.

Indeed, for instance the double square (half of one of the cube's surface) and its diagonal (√5) is the very graphic base of the golden mean (as the double square comes first after the Monad, being embedded within the Dyad), whose basic equation is (√5+1)/2 (see my book page 36). Besides, some numbers defining the Metatron's cube diagram do relate to the pentagram (see my book page 25-25).

Most specifically, the sacred geometry matrix – of which the Metatron's Cube is the absolute container – embeds within its harmonics, the square, pentagonal, hexagonal and so forth fractal matrixes, the elementary masterplan being the Metatron's Cube itself, being the isometric projection of the cube in the volumic perspective, its full development as infinite matrix being the actual orthogonal isometric projection of the hypercube (as represented in the 3D world, as its hypostasis so to speak), the universal blueprint of Creation. On this topics, see my book and other mathematical ones related to the tesseract and the 4th dimension.

Now, I'm very pleased to let you know that my book is presently in the process of being translated by David Vine, an American linguist and Tarologer which works besides with Rachel Pollack and Robert Place, among many other Tarologers.

All the best,

Wilfried Houdouin

http://www.tarot-de-marseille-millennium.com/english/
http://www.tarot-de-marseille-heritage.com/english/

metawill said:

Most specifically, the sacred geometry matrix – of which the Metatron's Cube is the absolute container – embeds within its harmonics, the square, pentagonal, hexagonal and so forth fractal matrixes, the elementary masterplan being the Metatron's Cube itself, being the isometric projection of the cube in the volumic perspective, its full development as infinite matrix being the actual orthogonal isometric projection of the hypercube (as represented in the 3D world, as its hypostasis so to speak), the universal blueprint of Creation. On this topics, see my book and other mathematical ones related to the tesseract and the 4th dimension.
[/url]

Click to expand...

I don't think anyone understands what you are saying here. The Metatron's Cube as basis for the platonic solids is quite a stretch, as far as dodecahedron and icosahedron concerns. The method referred to in Robert Lawlord's book, working from an outer and inner circle, is far superior.

Thanks for the post Wilfried. I believe you regarding the Golden Ratio, but I want to work through the mathematics myself.

I'm looking forward to the 78 card version of your Tarot deck and the English translation of your book.

yogiman said:

I don't think anyone understands what you are saying here. The Metatron's Cube as basis for the platonic solids is quite a stretch, as far as dodecahedron and icosahedron concerns. The method referred to in Robert Lawlord's book, working from an outer and inner circle, is far superior.

Click to expand...

Sorry if I've been unclear. Sure that some of the terms may be obscure to some, but it is easy to make some research on the net starting from these. By the way, the fourth dimension referred to here is spatial, and not temporal, as researched in depth by great mathematicians of the fall 19th century such as Edwin Abbott and Charles Howard Hinton, as well as Rudolf Steiner. This is a fascinating topic, which unfortunately has slept away from the public attention during the course of the 20th century, only to be addressed again nowadays by mathematicians such as Rudolf Rucker and Chris McMullen.

I understand that the settling of the isometric view of the dodecahedron within the Metatron's Cube is subject to discussion. But the Metatron's cube corresponds to the isometric view (a symmetrically normalized perspective) of the cube, which is actually one of the five Platonic volumes, all of these embedding within each other in and out infinitely. So the dodecahedron is definitely there…

Now, as a matter of fact, the precise isometric view of the dodecahedron actually happens to fit perfectly within the Metatron's Cube, once the fractals of the matrix are revealed (down to four scales precisely).

Thanks for the reference to Robert Lawlord's work.