BoT Etteilla is a curious deck - I am digging it

cmarie

I received this deck last week and find it so interesting. For instance I get the feeling this deck was made for low lighting, because the patterns really pop as the room gets darker. But maybe that is just me!

I am enjoying the titles on the cards, even though they are in french. I can figure out what some of them mean, but others I really don’t know. To me, the meanings of the cards are clear enough - at least the majors and the courts. But here is the thing - the lwb that came with the deck! It is a fine lwb and I am not complaining about it, but it is a little off. For one thing it lists the fool as 0 and the first card. In this deck the fool is 78. In the book the cards are all listed in numerical order.

And then the meanings seem to be different from what I am getting. For example No. 18 is titled ‘Traitre’ and reversed it called ‘faux devot’ , on the sides it is named Le Capucin. It shows a man near a building with a lantern and a cane. He is dressed in robes and there is a dog trying to get his attention. So I see the words traitor and faux devotee plus a touch of the fool card too.

Here is what the book says…No. 18 The Hermit: Austerity, Reflection. Preparation. Experience. Upside down: Betrayal. Solitude. Fruitless action.

To me it is as if someone who knows tarot wrote this book. I am not sure that these cards really line up with the tarot, perhaps it is more of an oracle deck. These things are minor, and this is not taking anything away from my enjoyment of the deck. I think it is kind of quirky and a bit cheeky and the lwb reflects that vibe. Has anyone else experienced this slight disconnect between the cards and the lwb?
 

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dancing_moon

This is a gorgeous deck, and I'm enjoying it a lot too. :)

Admittedly, I haven't had a look into the LWB for a long time. It did seem a bit off as compared to some of the keywords on the cards, so I guess that was the reason why. It may be a good starting point, though.

One other thing: it does look magical in candlelight. :bugeyed:
 

Le Fanu

Aren't the notes for this LWB taken from Julia Orsini's (?) writings on Etteilla? I might be mistaken...
 

dancing_moon

It doesn't look like that, Le Fanu. Here's the entry on Le Capucin I've found, containing Julia Orsini's keywords, among others:

18. [Traitre.] TRAITOR-Treason [or Betrayal], Disguise, Dissimulation, hypocrite, Hypocrisy, Deceiver, Suborner, Corrupter, Seducer.-Trickery [Roguery], Impostor. Fanatic, fanaticism, Ruse, Deceit, Imposture [omitted by Revak].

Reversed: [Faux Dévot.] FALSE DEVOUT. Hermit, Anchorite, Solitary, Hidden, Concealed, Disguised, Clever, Cunning, End. Politic [omitted by Revak].

Taken from here.
 

LindaMechele

I haven't read it yet because I'm relearning tarot and, once I realized this deck was so different from standard tarot, I put it aside so not to confuse myself. When I first got it I did do some reading on the forums and found this thread where Gregory provided translations of all the words on the card faces - post 57. Handy!

I just pulled out my lwb and compared it to Gregory's translations and while some are tangentially related, there are a LOT that are off! WAY off.

From LWB:
1. Chaos: Loyalty. Diplomacy. Sincerity. Generosity.
Upside down: Ability. Initiative. Resourcefullness.
Gregory's translation of what's on the actual cards:
1. (top) Etteilla - (sides) Chaos - (bottom) The Questioner (male)

LWB:
2. Light: Solidarity. Friendship. Explanation.
Upside down: Discord. Irritability. Misunderstandings. Hypocrisy.
Translation:
2. (top) Enlightenment - (sides) Light - (bottom) Fire

LWB:
3. Plants and Birds: Desire to change. Excursions. Strange Encounters.
Upside down: Indiscretions. Theft. Viruses.
Translation:
3. (top) Purpose - (sides) Plants - (bottom) Water

LWB:
4. Heavens: Tiredness. Sudden illness. Terrible surprises.
Upside down: Brilliant insight. Revelation. Love at first sight.
Translation:
(top)Deprivation - (sides) Sky - (bottom) Air

LWB:
5. Person: Favorable moment. Reward. Gain. Travel.
Upside down: Difficulty. Imperfection. Hostility.
Translation:
5. (top) Voyage/Journey - (sides) Man & Quadrupeds - (bottom) Earth

Very strange. I can see some if I make a big stretch. For instance with #4 - Deprivation could relate to tiredness, sudden illness, and terrible surprises, and Air could relate to brilliant insight & revelation (ideas - mind relates to air), and love at first sight (probably not real love but just attraction that could vary/lessen quickly like the vagaries of the wind). But that makes me think there's a lot more to those meanings to make that leap, a big chunk of info that we're missing between "deprivation" and "tiredness, illness, terrible surprises".

It is a curious little deck though, isn't it? I find myself strangely drawn to it, strongly drawn to it. When I first got it, I felt a big pull to handle it a lot. Since I didn't want to read with it yet, I satisfied that yen by putting a dyed edge treatment on them (in case you're interested, Tim Holtz aged mahogany Distress Ink is the perfect shade to match the backs). And I was pleasantly surprised to find out that it's one of the decks Seven Stars bastardized for her Deck of the Bastard. I have both the regular Bastard and the Samhain Bastard and that's probably part of why I love them so much.

Also, your #18 card's image is a mirror of the one in my deck - same text, just the image is flipped to face the opposite way. I'm not sure which edition mine is, but the lwb says copyright 2003 (it is the LoS version in the brown box that looks like an antique book, Strength on the English "The Book of Thoth" side, Sun on the Spanish "El Libro de Thoth" side).
 

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LindaMechele

Forgot to mention that the card in the top of the photo is the extra World card from the Deck of the Bastard. Her keywords are (upright) completion, travel and (reversed) lack of closure.
 

cmarie

Aren't the notes for this LWB taken from Julia Orsini's (?) writings on Etteilla? I might be mistaken...

I just looked at the back of my lwb and it says divinatory meanings by Rodrigo Tebani. I am looking forward to reading Julia Orsini's writings on this deck.

Thanks for links Dancing Moon and Linda Mechele!
 

cmarie

...


It is a curious little deck though, isn't it? I find myself strangely drawn to it, strongly drawn to it. When I first got it, I felt a big pull to handle it a lot. Since I didn't want to read with it yet, I satisfied that yen by putting a dyed edge treatment on them (in case you're interested, Tim Holtz aged mahogany Distress Ink is the perfect shade to match the backs). And I was pleasantly surprised to find out that it's one of the decks Seven Stars bastardized for her Deck of the Bastard. I have both the regular Bastard and the Samhain Bastard and that's probably part of why I love them so much.

Also, your #18 card's image is a mirror of the one in my deck - same text, just the image is flipped to face the opposite way. I'm not sure which edition mine is, but the lwb says copyright 2003 (it is the LoS version in the brown box that looks like an antique book, Strength on the English "The Book of Thoth" side, Sun on the Spanish "El Libro de Thoth" side).

This is great! I am very drawn to mine too, but am studying another deck at this time. And my card is facing the same way, I just ended up with a backwards print somehow, Doh!
Mine is also copyright 2003.

Yeah, those meanings are very different in the lwb from even what the cards say on them! I do not feel that they necessarily correspond to tarot - but I am completely green with this deck so I don't know. And thanks for the link to Gregory's pdf, that is going to be so handy, very sweet!

It is just such a cool deck I had to gush a bit! You're picture is nice, I like the little set-up. :)
 

LindaMechele

It IS such a cool deck. If you like that one, you should check out the Minchiate Etruria. It's a funky little historical thing with over 90 cards. The reprint I have is the one in the link and the cards are little, about 2 1/4" x 4", and not as thick as you'd think 90 cards would be. The more I study it, which admittedly isn't much like the Thoth Etteilla, the more I see echoes of RWS. Or should I say I see echoes of IT in RWS.

Thanks for the compliments on the photo. That's my lamp base that I conveniently used for a card prop. Most things in the photo aren't normally there except for the own figurine and the crystal ball (it's that glowing thing on the right - looks wild in the picture!).