Any Bizzarro fanciers out there?

.traveller.

It seems many people own this deck, but do not wish to talk about it. I guess it is not considered glamourous enough, however I prefer character over glamour any day.

I would be interested in any information you find regarding the Piedmontese. All of the scans I have seen depict double-headed cards, so I am a little confused as to what Piedmontese actually refers to/ its significance.
 

Rosanne

.traveller. said:
It seems many people own this deck, but do not wish to talk about it. I guess it is not considered glamourous enough, however I prefer character over glamour any day.
I have this deck in my favourites case. What would you like to talk about?
I find it a character driven Tarot and it makes me laugh. I have found that it shows me the somewhat sarcastic take on the querent's question. I enjoy this. I am not sure the querent would like to see inside my head.
This is what defines a Piedmontese Tarot:
Tarocco Piemontese (Piedmontese Tarot): minor modification of the Tarot de Marseille, used in the Piedmont and Liguria districts of Italy. 18th century to present (recent cards are double-headed).
This is a typical Piedmontese that Bizzarro was caricatured from:-
Ancient Tarots of Liguria-Piedmont By Giovanbattista Guala You can buy them from Tarot Garden. I believe the Spanish Tarot by Fournier is also a reproduction of a Linguria-Piedmont woodblock deck.~Rosanne
 

Flavio

Rosanne said:
This is what defines a Piedmontese Tarot:
Tarocco Piemontese (Piedmontese Tarot): minor modification of the Tarot de Marseille, used in the Piedmont and Liguria districts of Italy. 18th century to present (recent cards are double-headed).
This is a typical Piedmontese that Bizzarro was caricatured from:-
Ancient Tarots of Liguria-Piedmont By Giovanbattista Guala You can buy them from Tarot Garden. I believe the Spanish Tarot by Fournier is also a reproduction of a Linguria-Piedmont woodblock deck.~Rosanne
Thank you for this I also saw double headed cards regarded as a Piedmontese, I really can't understand how the Bizzarro was a parody of those!
 

.traveller.

Ah, so the double-headed versions are a later invention, that clears things up a bit.
What do I want to talk about? Well, I have alot of questions first off. I wonder how others view the simularities and differences between this deck, the Piedmont types of which it is a parody, and the Marseilles types which are discussed on the forum. I find I have difficulty visually distinguishing between the sword and baton suits on the Marseilles decks. I have to dig for the Ace to make an ID. I don't have that problem with this deck. Do people feel that anything is lost in this interpretation of a historical deck? Has anything been gained? Both are subjective questions, yet worthy of discussion... at least to me.
I also wonder why people use or don't use these cards.
 

Rosanne

Firstly I should state that I like the street theatre/newspaper cartoon look to these cards. I think TdM was the common man's cards and so this appeals to me.
I have scanned from Kaplan the Antonio Rossi Ligurian Piedmontese tarocco 1874-1879 and four of the Bizarrio cards that appear as Caricatures of this type of TdM.
I think I can often take myself to seriously about Tarot, and this type of parody, is healthy. :D I think in humorous way it increases my understanding , whilst poking borax at the establishment- just the way I think the original cards poked borax at the Church and leading dignitaries. I also think the original woodcuts were crude and undefined. The Bizzarro is not. After all, in the Rossi historical the card is so unclear Justice could really have had a bare breast; and what is on the Hermit's back could well be a cape that was a tent. The shell reminds me of a Nautilus old as the Earth (time) and so brings further aspects into the reading. I like the suits for their obviousness too!
I use my Conver for Study and my Bizzarro for reading- makes sense to me.
Just because a tarot deck is old does not make it worthy of reverence(especially if it is rough and hard to see). ~Rosanne
 

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Flavio

.traveller. said:
Well, I have alot of questions first off. I wonder how others view the simularities and differences between this deck, the Piedmont types of which it is a parody, and the Marseilles types which are discussed on the forum.
Basically I like the parody redrawn of the Majors, Aces and Court Cards, there are hundreds of RWS clones all different so why not have fresh nuances for a Marseilles, I just wanted to see Piedmontese cards to learn about Bizzarro's origin, as I parody deck I think Bizzarro is a category on its own and it would be difficult to compare with ancient old Marseilles, I'm nto the Marseilles study group and reading circles and I've seen extensive discussions about old Marseilles decks, if small changes between them cause such discussions I can't imagine how difficult would be for us to asses all the details redrawn in the Bizzarro.

I have a big issue with The Force cards that portrait "brute force" instead of a "pacific/pasive force" but that is matter with many decks not only the Bizzarro.

It would be nice to open threads to discuss sets of cards (all the 4s, all the Kings, etc)

I find I have difficulty visually distinguishing between the sword and baton suits on the Marseilles decks. I have to dig for the Ace to make an ID. I don't have that problem with this deck. Do people feel that anything is lost in this interpretation of a historical deck? Has anything been gained? Both are subjective questions, yet worthy of discussion... at least to me.
Body language and face expressions, are winners! Majors and Court Cards are quite expresive and worth look carefully.

I had trouble making the Marseilles minors "speak to me" Bizzarro's minors are even more difficult (LOL) but I'm always in for a challenge... I got used to certain patterns and flowers in coups and deniers that lead me to interpretation, they are not found in Bizzarro, now they have insects and animals I haven't seen before in a card, I want those creatures to help me learn the card but at this stage we're just getting to know each other. Have you used those animals/insects as tool for interpretation?

Somehow I miss the traditional batons and swords, that is another thing that makes me think Bizzarro is a category on its own, Franco Bruna had a chance to redrawn I wish he stretched himself a little bit more and gave us more interesting minors.

I also wonder why people use or don't use these cards.
Is a simple matter of taste, some of us like cartoonish style decks (among others) some people don't, I think Querents are unaware of the wide variety of decks available but if someone shows up to read with a deck of this style probably won't be taken seriously under most circumstances, I remember that Mojo or Woof said this deck works very well for readings at parties, that doesn't mean that would be its only application but at this point I don't see me using this as my main all purpose deck although I really like it.
 

Flavio

Thank you very much for the Rossi scans.

Rosanne said:
I think I can often take myself to seriously about Tarot, and this type of parody, is healthy. :D I think in humorous way it increases my understanding , whilst poking borax at the establishment- just the way I think the original cards poked borax at the Church and leading dignitaries.
Just my thoughts! I've come to discover in time, that the most I relax about Tarot, the better and easier I can learn and read, this makes me a better reader so able to help more Querents.

If Tarot is so deep rooted into our lives, I feel it is OK to have funny moments and use entertaining decks like Bizzarro is.

Just because a tarot deck is old does not make it worthy of reverence(especially if it is rough and hard to see).
Agree, old decks are worth study and respect but IMHO no reverence, specially if they don't speak to you.
 

.traveller.

Oh wow, I don't see the Strength card in this deck being just about brute strength. I look at the white hair of the man and I think of wisdom, the wisdom that allows you to use your strength in a timely and appropriate manner. It is the ability to respond to challenging situations as they arise. The blue of the lion tells me that challenges may come from the spiritual to test the strength of our beliefs.

I love the pips in this deck. I use the insects, the flowers, and the array of the symbols in interpretation, along with the suit number, and element.
 

Flavio

.traveller. said:
Oh wow, I don't see the Strength card in this deck being just about brute strength. I look at the white hair of the man and I think of wisdom, the wisdom that allows you to use your strength in a timely and appropriate manner. It is the ability to respond to challenging situations as they arise. The blue of the lion tells me that challenges may come from the spiritual to test the strength of our beliefs.
I see your point, thank you for elaborating on that. I guess I got trapped in the dynamic image in the card.

I love the pips in this deck. I use the insects, the flowers, and the array of the symbols in interpretation, along with the suit number, and element.
Would you please give us(me) some examples on your takes? just like you elaborated about the Strenght? Thank you!
 

.traveller.

Rosanne said:
Firstly I should state that I like the street theatre/newspaper cartoon look to these cards. I think TdM was the common man's cards and so this appeals to me.
Me too! Humor is so important and the ability to laugh at life is undercultivated. I thoroughly enjoy parody and other forms of satire, when it appears in tarot I feel it gives the cards added relevance. It's a little hard for me to explain but it's like they are better connected to the business of life, warts and all. I love the clear illustrations and the use of color.


Flavio said:
I think Querents are unaware of the wide variety of decks available but if someone shows up to read with a deck of this style probably won't be taken seriously under most circumstances,

I'm not sure I agree with this, perhaps if your querent/s have a set notion as to what a tarot should look like then maybe you have a point. Personally speaking, I think most querents follow the lead of the reader. If the reader treats the cards with respect then the querent will follow suit. I remember reading at a birthday party (long long ago) and with the exception of one or two people, no one looked at the cards. They looked at me and listened to me, they were not there to read the cards themselves but to have someone read the cards to them. I find many people are nervous with having their cards read and if using a deck like this diffuses some of that tension, I am all for it.