Why is The Moon card usually seen as negative?

chaosbloom

I don't see much disagreement on what the Moon signifies here. I see disagreement on whether the things it signifies are all-dangerous or not. The pure symbol and its meanings can be called a tradition but the way one deals with and classifies those meanings is a traditional attitude. There's no problem with multiple competing traditions or traditional attitudes but some of those attitudes might be very incompatible or vile to some of us. Still tolerable until they're presented as the correct attitude to have to the exclusion of all other viewpoints. Not my cup of tea.
 

Barleywine

Just some side-commentary on this thread:

I've noticed over my years with AT that there is a strong tendency to conflate the astrological meaning of the Moon - where it is an essential building-block of the personality - with the tarot usage. I've seen the same confusion among the Lenormand community. While there are certainly parallels, they are not seamlessly interchangeable. Just sayin' . . .
 

junemarie

Moon Card

The Moon in Tarot, as in astrology and other occult traditions, has had a bad press because of the rank misogyny of many male occultists - eg Papus and Crowley to name just two.

To become an occultist in Indo-European (and most other) cultures, you needed to be literate, preferably in Latin and Greek as well as your own vernacular, and have access to an exceptional library. A private income helped.

Few women had these opportunities before 19th century. Further, well-to-do educated men had the means, the contacts and the opportunity to publish in a way that simply wasn't open to women until the early 20th century.

Not only were male occultists informed by the misogyny of their own culture, but they understood better than most, the extraordinary and compelling nature of feminine magical power. For these reasons they were very wary and often negative about expressions of this power, of which the moon is perhaps the most important. Thus we have a tradition of negativity about the moon which still survives in some Tarot schools.

If you want a good corrective to all that nonsense, read (if you haven't already done so) Robert Graves' masterpiece on the magical feminine, The White Goddess.

For my money, the moon is the ruler of all magic, and especially of divination. You cannot interpret the planets, or understand your dreams, or read the Tarot, without honouring her. She is Mother, Goddess, and High Priestess, and you will understand nothing of the occult arts without her guidance.
 

SkylerK

Okay, and the tradition I pointed to is equally old if not more so. What are you trying to say? That since there are Christian elements in Tarot, the negative interpretation of the card is somehow accurate? There's no accurate and inaccurate interpretation, those things were invented in the 18th century when Tarot started to be used for divination. And it's not as if Graeco-Roman elements are unrelated to Tarot. This reproduction of the Moon card from the Mantegna Tarrocchi depicts Selene on her chariot.

The fact is, mythology and greco-roman -christian or pagan traditions aside, the Moon in my experience-and that of most readers I know- often speaks of mental illness, hidden things, the dark side, and everything I said in my first post-and more. I pride myself in being a pragmatist and empiricist first of all, and in readings, I have never seen the Moon in a particularly positive way. Of course, maybe one day I will, I can't rule it out. Until then, I'm sorry if Tradition has treated the Moon-and the feminine in general- unfairly, I am a woman too. But that's the way it is, and it's not going to change because we disagree.
 

SkylerK

Okay, and the tradition I pointed to is equally old if not more so. What are you trying to say? That since there are Christian elements in Tarot, the negative interpretation of the card is somehow accurate? There's no accurate and inaccurate interpretation, those things were invented in the 18th century when Tarot started to be used for divination. And it's not as if Graeco-Roman elements are unrelated to Tarot. This reproduction of the Moon card from the Mantegna Tarrocchi depicts Selene on her chariot.

And it's not just about Christian tradition, by the way.
 

SkylerK

Here's what I think I said:

This gets right to the heart of the matter, mythological and political antecedents aside. I never see the Moon as universally negative, but it can certainly be a mixed bag. In a reading I treat it as a cautionary statement, not to "jump at shadows," so to speak. Before New Age artists overlaid it with a sheen of glamour, all of the old images - up to and including the RWS - implied "proceed with caution." Uncertainty holds sway where the Moon presides. Motives and intentions should be carefully weighed.

Yes, that is a fair description of how to read it in a spread, without getting too specific. The rest of the cards will do the rest.
 

Barleywine

The Moon in Tarot, as in astrology and other occult traditions, has had a bad press because of the rank misogyny of many male occultists - eg Papus and Crowley to name just two.

Gah, another gross over-generalization! While that patriarchal near-sightedness is certainly present (often "in spades"), I've read many "occult" texts where the core of the tradition is presented in an even-handed manner, often several levels of subtlety above any considerations of gender inequality. But, of course, I'm a male so I'm probably expected to say that.
 

SkylerK

I personally think that the Moon card has been given a bad rap simply as a result of Waite's original (mis)interpretation. I view the Moon Card as unconscious forces - which can be either good or bad, depending on what they are.

Personally, I am in the habit of making sense of a card by what experience in readings has shown me about it, not what Waite, Papus, the Bible or the mythology have said about it, although we can't ignore the origin of its symbolism, which is laden with meaning. And over the years, I have changed my mind about cards, when the reality check has given me reason to do so. One example is the Devil, which is being discussed in another thread. After allowing myself to be mislead by those currents of thought who want a silver lining in every cloud, I had to go back to the original idea, which you are free to read about in the other thread. Sometimes, no matter how hard we try, there is just no silver lining in every cloud. But you're right, the Moon is usually about the uncoscious or subconscious. Unlike the Devil, who is usually very well aware of the "evil" in his life, or in a given situation.
 

SkylerK

I don't see much disagreement on what the Moon signifies here. I see disagreement on whether the things it signifies are all-dangerous or not. The pure symbol and its meanings can be called a tradition but the way one deals with and classifies those meanings is a traditional attitude. There's no problem with multiple competing traditions or traditional attitudes but some of those attitudes might be very incompatible or vile to some of us. Still tolerable until they're presented as the correct attitude to have to the exclusion of all other viewpoints. Not my cup of tea.

Oh I see a lot of disagreement, actually. And not just in attitudes, but about the facts. But that's alright. And it goes without saying that each one of us can keep his own and no one owns the ultimate Truth.
 

SkylerK

Gah, another gross over-generalization! While that patriarchal near-sightedness is certainly present (often "in spades"), I've read many "occult" texts where the core of the tradition is presented in an even-handed manner, often several levels of subtlety above any considerations of gender inequality. But, of course, I'm a male so I'm probably expected to say that.

Well, I'm a female, and I agree with you. When it pours down with rain, we all get wet the same way, male and female. Some facts of life are indisputable, and very democratic-thank god.