Court Cards for a Modern Deck?

In creating an original deck, how do you approach the court cards? We all love the tarot in part for its mythological association -- do you feel that the old "King and Queen" titles are worth preserving for that reason, or is a more contemporary set of titles more relatable and meaningful today.

My own idea was simply to use :

"Child" -- for young people of either sex
"Man"
"Woman"
"Elder" -- the elder is male for swords and staves, female for cups and coins

But would these titles be too prosaic for you -- do you want something grander in a significator?

I think if the concept is well executed and explained well about your creation then i think there is no problem with how you use the court cards? there are many modern type decks here on AT that have used different methods for the minors and even court cards and i think they are great.

http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/modern.shtml

I posted the other day (3rd-4th paragraphs) a bit on changes to the Court cards.

It's not that the titles you propose are 'too prosaic' (I like prosaic!), but I'd be wary of "Man" and "Woman" (especially if they're standing in for Knight and Queen, as I infer from your post, rather than King and Queen, whom I see more as equals in status/maturity). Personally I like to move away from tying Court ranks to gender - this includes assigning titles that reflect core values. Speaking very broadly, I find it more helpful to think in terms of Yin/Yang than in terms of Feminine/Masculine.

That said, views of the 'correct' way to interpret Court cards are many and varied, and perhaps your deck reflects different preferences. Choose what works best for your take on the cards.

When I was creating the Vanessa Tarot, I didn't bother modernizing the court cards' titles. I just modernized the images (though I did change pentacles to coins which I feel is more approachable to the layman in terms of wealth association; and the World card, which was changed to the Universe - but that was just a cheeky joke/concept play on pageants). But that's really just a personal preference. I feel it ties the old (tarot court card titles) with the new (modern imagery).

I am going with keeping the titles of the cards traditional. Gender is a bit more problematic to me, depiction wise. With King and Queen, you have a good representation of adult feminine and masculine.

When you get down to the Knight and Page, it seems less so. Knight and Pages seem to be more age related than gender, though Knights are usually depicted as men, and Pages can be men, young men, young women or undetermined older child.

I am thinking about having two Knights male and two Knights female, the same with Pages. So two suites will have a female Knight and a male Page.

You might want to take a look at the Cary-Yale, which has extra court cards including female 'knights' (they are untitled, which is why I bracketed 'knights). Old Portuguese latin suited decks also have female servants (sota). In some eastern decks (Persian / Turkestani) the female servants are called 'läkät' (dancing girls - viewed as something of little value). Traditionally red French suits (diamonds/hearts) and latin short suits (coins, cups) are feminine, the other two masculine.

If you were to change the titles you could go the whole hog and have different titles for different suits, perhaps based on occupations one might associate with suits, e.g., for cups: barmaid, cellarman, landlady & landlord Or have a revolution and do away with the monarchy and make it republican*, with presidents, vice-presidents, ambassadors and senators (Has the benefit at least of being gender free titles that could be pictured with either men or woman).

Kwaw

* For a precedent in playing cards there are those of the French revolution, when Kings, Queens, and Jacks were replaced with Liberties, Equalities, and Fraternities. The Queen of Hearts for example became 'Freedom of Religion' (Liberte des Cultes) :

Zipgun said:

I am thinking about having two Knights male and two Knights female, the same with Pages. So two suites will have a female Knight and a male Page.

Click to expand...

I suggested a similar idea here around 10 years ago and people weren't too keen on it then. Good to know that times have changed since then. Good luck on this! As kwaw has referenced, there is historical precedence on this (Cary-Yale).

I do like the idea of having two male/two female each of Knights/Pages. I'd like even more to see someone taking it a step further, and featuring two male Queens, and two female Kings.

Because it's not just about wanting the cards to be all properly gender balanced; it's also about getting over the idea that the only difference between Kings and Queens is their gender. I stumbled across a Tarot site a few weeks ago that literally said this in so many words: described the attributes of the King of Swords in detail, then got to the Queen and said little besides, "the Queen of Swords has all the same attributes of the King, but is a woman" [paraphrased from memory].

...So I guess some people do prefer to read that way, and that's their right and all, but: Tarot is a language that only has 78 words. To me it's absurd to think such a compact language would completely waste four whole words describing things (be it situations, ideas, or people) that are the same but for one rather insignificant detail, e.g. gender. (Even when readers understand this, I think it can be helpful having decks that contribute to making it clear, for the clients who don't. Which would also be an argument in favour of doing away with the traditional titles for something more neutral.)

All that said, in my ideal deck, all the figures in every card would be androgynous hence my Tarot wishlist includes a high proportion of stick figure decks, animal decks, etc. Those cards can easily be read as male, female, or non-gender-binary, with minimal fuss.

try The Navigators of the Mystic Sea Tarot