[rd-alvarez]

Hi, everybody!

I'm looking for references to the Etteilla's correspondences system. I was reading the Enciclopedya of Tarot Vol I, and there is a summary, but Kaplan doesn't quotes from where he takes that information. Also I was checking this site: http://web.archive.org/web/201112041.../emw/emw_b.htm but it doesn't have the same correspondences that Kaplan shows in his book.

Anyone could help me with this research?

[Abrac]

The correspondences you linked to are from the so-called "Grand Etteilla" deck. The correspondences are marked on the cards. As for Kaplan's table I'm not sure but I wouldn't say he's wrong necessarily; there are other Etteilla decks so maybe they're from one of those or from Etteilla's writings.

[kwaw]

Originally Posted by rd-alvarez

Hi, everybody!

I'm looking for references to the Etteilla's correspondences system. I was reading the Enciclopedya of Tarot Vol I, and there is a summary, but Kaplan doesn't quotes from where he takes that information. Also I was checking this site: http://web.archive.org/web/201112041.../emw/emw_b.htm but it doesn't have the same correspondences that Kaplan shows in his book.

Anyone could help me with this research?

There are at least a couple of errors in the above list -

Etteilla trump 1 corresponds to the TdM Pope --

Etteilla trump 13 (marriage) corresponds to the TdM Lovers

To the first 12 trumps Etteilla assigns the 12 zodiac signs, from Aries to Pisces: The planets, lights and head and tail of the dragon to the suit of coin pips -

You can find a lot of material related to Etteilla on this forum, translated from the French into English

[Abrac]

rd-alvarez, I found something in Christine Payne-Towler's The Continental Tarots that may be of interest:

"The two lists I am citing to detail Etteilla’s astro-alphanumeric correspondences are the one given by Papus in the late 1800s, and Stuart Kaplan’s version in Vol I of his Encyclopedia. Although I cannot read French to confirm those earlier connections, I know that Papus was the recognized expert of his time and was cited by all English, French and Spanish Tarot writers of his day. I trust his reporting, although his information only goes so far as to link Etteilla’s Arcana to the more usual versions from the Marseilles Arcana. Stuart Kaplan shows a differently organized version of the same set in his Encyclopedia of Tarot, Vol. 1 [page 5], having taken the trouble to supply the astrology correspondences from Etteilla’s books. These correspondences became standard for all of Europe's Secret Societies and their Tarots by the time of Levi."

And right before that she says:

". . .both of the sources mentioned below have only partial information in their lists, and over two centuries of reprinting in various countries, the Etteilla cards began to show considerable corruption in the letter/astrology correspondences, making a confusing situation even more difficult to unravel."

From this it seems Kaplan's list is probably closer to Etteilla's intent. The Grand Etteilla may be one that has been "corrupted" as she puts it.

[kwaw]

Originally Posted by Abrac

r

". . .both of the sources mentioned below have only partial information in their lists, and over two centuries of reprinting in various countries, the Etteilla cards began to show considerable corruption in the letter/astrology correspondences, making a confusing situation even more difficult to unravel."

Despite Christine Payne-Towler's claim to the contrary (and the table in Wirth), there were no [hebrew] letter correspondences made by Etteilla -

[Abrac]

I've recently acquire a copy of A Wicked Pack of Cards and it shows an antique Etteilla I—the one Grimaud's Grand Etteilla is modeled on. All astrological correspondences match Grimaud's Grand Etteilla and they also match the list from rd-alvarez's link. This was Etteilla's very first tarot so I can't see how it could be "corrupted." I don't know where Kaplan got his list. He wrote in his Encyclopedia, Vol. 2, pg. 398: "Etteilla apparently did not publish any decks during his lifetime." This is not true, so I'm a bit hesitant to trust he knows what he's talking about, at least concerning Etteilla.

[kwaw]

Originally Posted by Abrac

I've recently acquire a copy of A Wicked Pack of Cards and it shows an antique Etteilla I—the one Grimaud's Grand Etteilla is modeled on. All astrological correspondences match Grimaud's Grand Etteilla and they also match the list from rd-alvarez's link. This was Etteilla's very first tarot so I can't see how it could be "corrupted."

If anyone is guilty of 'corrupting' Etteilla's deck/system it is CPT, who constantly misrepresents him and his deck --

A common mistake by some is in the correspondence between his trumps and the TdM, with many misrepresenting the Etteilla 'male querent' trump 1 card as corresponding to the TdM magician instead of the Pope, and his 'marriage' card to the Pope instead of the Lover(s) ;

He did not make any direct correlations between trumps and Hebrew letters in any of his works as far as I am aware (and I have read most of them - including all four cahiers and supplements)

A Wicked Pack of Cards shows the Etteilla to TdM correspondences on pages 86 & 92:

The astrological associations were printed on his cards, and were accurately reproduced on the Grimaud Grand Etteilla:

12 signs of the zodiac to first 12 trumps in order; astrological planets, plus head and tail of the dragon and part of fortune on the coins;

[_R_]

Originally Posted by Christine Payne-Towler

Although I cannot read French to confirm those earlier connections, I know that Papus was the recognized expert of his time [...] I trust his reporting

I think the issue stems from here.

[Abrac]

Good point R. One would think knowing French would be the first prerequisite for a proper understanding of Etteilla.

[rd-alvarez]

The astrological associations were printed on his cards, and were accurately reproduced on the Grimaud Grand Etteilla:

12 signs of the zodiac to first 12 trumps in order; astrological planets, plus head and tail of the dragon and part of fortune on the coins;

Thank you all for yours answers.
Yeas, I find the Grand Etteilla correspondences in the cards, and match with the chart of the link I send. Still don't know what or who is the origin of the Kaplan's correspondences for Etteilla in Vol I.

So to translate the Etteilla's astrological correspondences to the standards Tarot pattern (based on TdM in this case), first I match the Triumphs of Grand Etteilal to those of TdM, as Kaplan and Papus proposed, and then to the astrological correspondence. So it would be in this way:

Etteilla----------------- Le Pape------------ Aries
Eclaircissement------- Le Soleil----------- Taurus
Propos----------------- La Lune------------ Geminis
Depuillement---------- L'Etoile------------ Cancer
Voyage---------------- The World--------- Leo
La Nuit---------------- The Empress------ Virgo
Apput------------------ The Emperor------ Libra
Etteilla---------------- The Papess-------- Scorpion
La Justice------------- Justice------------- Sagitarius
La Temperance------- Temperance------- Capricornius
La Force--------------- Strengh----------- Aquarius
La Prudence----------- The Hanged Man--Piscis