Mirror of the Soul

Voron

Well, while he may have been to just about every Carribean Island, but recently, pushing age 60, he found himself living in his ex-ex-ex-wife's yurt in her backyard...you wouldn't want to be him...

I like the idea myself of being a hedonistic degenerate who has enough properly invested wealth to live off the interest and never make a dent in the whole, no matter how debaucherous I am.

(let me guess, this is where you tell me to look you up when I get there...)
 

Istari

Hi,

I happen to find mirror of the soul tarot by ziegler but I am wondering where how the deck would look like compared to the U.S games edition. Been searching around but can't seem to find pictures about it.

I am wondering if it is that rare to find that deck box set as I have not seen it for sometime but I do managed to find it available in ebay.

Anyone care to enlighten me? Thanks in advance.
 

Babylon_Jasmine

AbstractConcept said:
there's a big sale on until Sunday, but this was the rrp for some zaney theosophically divined reason (no doubt).
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The Book of Thoth, By Aliester Crowley is the best book on his deck, by far and away, the very best. I don't personally understand why so many people consider it a hard book either, it is WAY easier to read than "an illustrated Guide to the Tarot" by AE Waite.
 

Babylon_Jasmine

euripides said:
Great ... now I'm getting a book wishlist to match my deck wishlist.

I picked up the Book of Thoth from the library, (amazingly), and I must admit there's a few things I've read so far that I'm struggling with - I'm SO not into numerology - I'd prefer not to elaborate as I know many of us ARE into it and I don't want to sound like I'm dissing them. But he kind of mentions this bit of what looks like a quadratic equation but not quite ... I'm going to have to put my critical self in a box for a bit and try hard to stay open minded, I think. I feel that sometimes numerology (er, sorry but going to have to say this) does recognise the mathematical beauty and connectedness in the universe but sort of dumbs it down for us non-mathematicians.

Anyway, I fear I'm going too offtopic as well, and I'd better give Crowley some time before I pass judgement over a small fragment of the work. That introductory book sounds like a brilliant idea - I think especially with these 'older' writers - and lets face it, Crowley is from another age, culturally - some sort of introduction can be useful.
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The Thoth deck is built around Kabbalistic Numerology. If you aren't willing to tackle numerology you are not going to be able to understand the deck in the way it was designed to be understood. Kabbalism is a pretty deep, hardcore variety of numerology too. I guess that is probably one reason the book was pretty easy for me, Math has always been a strong suit for me.
 

Babylon_Jasmine

Aeon418 said:
Where as Ziegler, Akron, and Banzhaf put their own personal spin on Crowley when interpreting the Thoth Tarot, Angeles Arrien completely ignores him.
From page 13 of The Tarot Handbook:

So, in other words, she read The Book of Thoth and didn't like it, so she threw it out the window and made up her own meaning for the symbols instead. In this single paragraph Angeles Arrien is practically saying that Crowley and Harris didn't know what they were doing, but she knows better. :rolleyes:
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I don't think there is anything wrong with this approach. If you want to assign your own intepretations to the cards you should certainly feel free to do so. However it seems odd to me do assign your own interpretations to a deck designed by someone else and then write a book about your interpretations. Aside from writing them up in your own journal as an aid to memory of course. I mean, who cares what Angeles Arrien thinks the cards mean? Crowley clearly states what he designed them to mean in his book.
 

Babylon_Jasmine

Nininka said:
I am really sorry, but I just cannot agree.
The Tarot Handbook is rich with symbolism, the astrology and such.
It is just put across in an understandable manner.
I really do not think the author is making her own version of the Thoth, she
is focusing on the symbols in the cards and their meanings, and as she has obtained a degree in symbology she does know a great deal about it.
She is not novice to Egyptian symbols or anything like that, so I would say that makes her understand the Thoth tarot which is rich in symbols of different cultures quite well.

I think that as opposed to for example Ziegler who merely skims on the surface and does not actually offer the reader with explanations of what the cards depicts and where is that coming from, but instead offers a lot of new age fluff, this author actually tries to see what Crowley might have been trying to depict in the cards by choosing the symbols, colours and images he did.

I do not understand why you would pick a sentence out of the chapter context from The Tarot Handbook book and base your opinion on that.
In addition to this, is not every one of the Thoth books out there on the market written for the very same purpose ? I.e. to put the info from The Book of Thoth in a more digastable form. From many a thread on this website for example it is quite clear that The Book of Thoth is way too esoteric for many people, to the point of lacking any comprehension.
Plus The Book of Thoth in my opinion does not work as a tool for self growth, does not offer affirmations etc., merely describes a concept. So I think other books on Thoth definitely have what to add in this respect.
In my opinion this is what the author of The Tarot Handbook has managed to do quite wonderfully, without putting herlself into the cards, which is something I feel has happened with Ziegler, it seems to reflect a lot of his personal views on the world and strays away from what is actually in the cards.

You could actually accuse any author out there that they think they can do better than The Book of Thoth, otherwise why are they trying to write a book on this tarot ?
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I think that the Book of Thoth describes the deck as a tool of self growth rather well. Crowley offers his own meditations on some of the cards as examples even.
 

Parzival

Babylon_Jasmine said:
I don't think there is anything wrong with this approach. If you want to assign your own intepretations to the cards you should certainly feel free to do so. However it seems odd to me do assign your own interpretations to a deck designed by someone else and then write a book about your interpretations. Aside from writing them up in your own journal as an aid to memory of course. I mean, who cares what Angeles Arrien thinks the cards mean? Crowley clearly states what he designed them to mean in his book.
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But are the card-images only to be joined to Crowley's original intentions or do they have an artistic, symbolic, transformative life of their own, both Book of Thoth based and self-image based? Do we read letters of painters from which to interpret their artistic creations, or do we sometimes look directly at the paintings? (DaVinci's "Last Supper"). You can find perfect explanations by scholars as to what Shakespeare's sonnets mean according to the Elizabethan background. Or you can face-to-face with the sonnets and a few notes and discover their meaning for yourself. Same with the Thoth Tarot. Human beings interpret and re-interpret symbolic art. Why limit to one interpretive source? Ultimately, the higher Human Self inspires us all. Or is it our favorite Initiate, who replaces Self, our very own Self, your very own Self, the Universe Itself? Actually, the Thoth Tarot mirrors the Universe. Crowley stated that.
 

Aeon418

Frank Hall said:
But are the card-images only to be joined to Crowley's original intentions or do they have an artistic, symbolic life of their own
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Crowley himself says, "Each card is, in a sense, a living being". The Book of Thoth merely describes the essential characteristics of these "beings", but it does not seek to interpret them for you. You have to do that yourself.

This is where the books by Ziegler and Arrien fall down. They try to interpret the symbolism for you. So instead of learning about the Thoth Tarot you end up learning about the authors own individual reactions to the cards.
 

Parzival

Agreed, and you wrote a similar note to mine awhile back. But I wouldn't say all that Arrien and Banzhoff, etc, do is tell us their interprettions, as substitution for our own, especially Banzhoff. Sometimes, he simply provides a symbolic lexicon. My point is that the Archetypes of Beauty-Truth are there for us to experience face-to-face. It is also important, to me, to "bear in mind" Crowley's meditations on the images, along with what other interpretations inspire us to bring the images to life. I found several visions of the Universe image helpful for me to consider. Then there is the Universe image pointing to the Universe. I and Thou, so to speak.

"Of the progress of the souls of men and women along the grand roads of the universe, all other progress is the needed emblem and sustenance....Whoever you are, come forth!...." (Whitman, Song of the Open Road). May the Road of the Tarot be Open to all travelers.
 

Babylon_Jasmine

Frank Hall said:
But are the card-images only to be joined to Crowley's original intentions or do they have an artistic, symbolic life of their own, both Book of Thoth based and self-image based? Do we read letters of painters from which to interpret their artistic creations, or do we sometimes look directly at the paintings? You can find perfect explanations by scholars as to what Shakespeare's sonnets mean according to the Elizabethan background. Or you can face-to-face with the sonnets and a few notes and discover their meaning for yourself. Same with the Thoth Tarot. Human beings interpret and re-interpret symbolic art. Why limit to one interpretive source? Ultimately, the higher Human Self inspires us all. Or is it our favorite Initiate, who replaces Self, our very own Self, your very own Self, the Universe Itself? Actually, the Thoth Tarot mirrors the Universe. Crowley stated that.
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That is what I am saying. If you want to meditate on the cards, or look at the pictures and research the meanings of the various symbols that you see more power to you. It is just silly to read someone else's interpretations of the cards, or at least it seems that way to me. I also don't think a tarot deck should be compared to a usual work of art. Unlike a painting a tarot deck is a tool, not only art, and the Book of Thoth is a manual put out by the designer of the tool.
 
Spreads For Thoth and Use of EDs Trimming the Thoth "just couldn't do it"