Tarot origins

interesting!

Yes I agree with you. Not every tarot reader is psychic, but one is reading the card meanings & also what they're feeling - intuition!

Origins of tarot!

I was good & I did my home work. I actually read parts of Tarot books. I'm so proud of myself * smiles*

As we all know there are many differen theories about the origin of tarot. Did they originate in Egypt, or back in Italy in the medieval times? Playing cards have also been used for diviation. Kings, Queens, Knights, Pages, the joker (fool) 4 suits!

I guess nobody can tell us the true answer to this question, but I must say that it adds more mystery to the matter. So I guess not knowing isn't a bad thing after all.

Though there isn't a very precise location nor person or group to which we can point and say: 'hail thee, and thank you for creating this most wonderful of decks!', we can affirm that Tarot, as Tarot, did not originate outside Europe, and that its emergence is late mediaeval.

Books are written by people like you and I. For some, the historical aspect is vitally important, and attention to detail is given. For others, its reflection of one's spiritual path is very much the focus. For others yet, the weight of the authority of certain esotericists is taken over-and-above their historical blunders.

The individual images certainly contain echoes of times far anterior - but not as a deck. Also, as such, the spiritual insights each image may contain antedates the emergence of the deck. But the deck is clearly a late mediaeval European masterpiece.

To give a musical analogy, the electric keyboard is a 20th century invention, even if some of its seeds can be found in pre-ancient Greek lyres (via the harp, harpsichord, and pianoforte).

Just want to share something with everyone. Please forgive me if you think what I am about to tell you is totally off the track.....

In the first message of this thread, cheekyminx76 inquired about methods used in Asia that shows connection with tarot. Being a chinese myself, I did think about that since China has 5000 years of history and that it participated in the production of paper.

I do know of one method which is still used by Chinese nowadays when seeking for answers to their problem and which shares similarities with tarot cards. I don't know the proper name for that method in English. But if I translate its chinese name directly using English, it would be "a request for the perfect card."

This practice is often done in a temple where all the Chinese god and godess are idolized. The querent would first pray and also ask for answer of one's problem. Then, the querent would go to a room where this practice takes place. It is usually in a room or corner near by these gods and goddesses served in the temple. In that room, there would be a cup containing all the "cards" which are made of bamboo sticks. Each stick has a number corresponding to the "card" which has "answer" for the querent. The content of each card is printed on a piece of paper. And the content of each card has four short phases describing an ancient chinese story. The story is very much like each stage of "Fool's journey" in Tarot. By understanding what the story means, the querent will then find the answer to one's problem.

In order to get the "correct" card, the querent has to kneel in front of the god figure and shake the cup that holds all the sticks. The shake will cause one of the sticks, only one, to fall out of the cup. That stick represents the "card" that has the solution. Then the querent can read off the number written on the stick and find the coresponding card which has the story.....

Hope you have found my report interesting. Please feel free if you have any question or comment.

polo sticks?

Thank you jmd and catboxer for explaining in such an interesting way the historical origins of the cards. I did not know that the Tarot suits are remnants of an original Arabic species of suits. Do modern Arabic playing cards still use these suits as well? And Italian? I wonder what was the sense of the polo sticks? I like polo sticks better than wands, it indicates playing (homo ludens?) as opposed to fighting. I'm never sure what wands are really about...

re: A Request for the Perfect Card
Jeank74, I just saw your post. We must have been writing our posts at the same time. That is very interesting indeed! I bet we would all like to know much much more about what you just wrote. Depending on whether others have already published stuff on this or not, you may have a book to write!

How many bambo sticks, you said? Do you know the whole story of the sticks? or have it written, or an access to it somewhere? I'd like to know how you say the name in Chinese, can you transliterate it for us into our alphabet?
Is it always the same ancient Chinese story? or are there different stories. Does the story have a name too?

Of course, if you want a contemporary equivalent to the polo sticks, perhaps we ought to make a suit of golf clubs. . . .

re: A Request for the Perfect Card
Jeank74, I just saw your post. We must have been writing our posts at the same time. That is very interesting indeed! I bet we would all like to know much much more about what you just wrote. Depending on whether others have already published stuff on this or not, you may have a book to write!

How many bambo sticks, you said? Do you know the whole story of the sticks? or have it written, or an access to it somewhere? I'd like to know how you say the name in Chinese, can you transliterate it for us into our alphabet?
Is it always the same ancient Chinese story? or are there different stories. Does the story have a name too?

Click to expand...

firemaiden

I believe there must be books written on that particular request, since it has been practiced for a long long time... more than a century. However, I don't know the exact history and origin of that particular practice and so far I haven't been able to find any reliable information on the internet.... Probably it is just because I don't know how to search for this since nothing is in English...

Anyways, regarding your questions. How many sticks? I bet there are more than 50 but less than 100... The sticks are like the chopsticks... Unfortunately, I don't know the story behind the sticks... Its Chinese name, if in Mandarin, would be "Chio-Chian." In Cantonese, it would be "Kao-Qin." "Chio/Kao" means "a request". "Chian/Qin" would be "the card." The stories on the sticks are different from one to another, just like the pictures on the tarot cards.... Each story represents the situation of the querent, depending on the question asked by the querent. And, yes, each story has a name.

I wish I could tell you more than these. Next time if you by any chance by pass a Chinese temple, make sure you ask them whether this "Chio-Chian" or "Kao-Qin" is practiced there.

Ya, most of the Chinese Temple in Singapore also have this,"Chio-Chian" or "Kao-Qin". You'll need to shake a half bottle gently till a stick dropped with a number on it. Then go to the shelf and take the paper acorrding to the number with a poem on it. The poem is like drawing of the Tarot Cards. The poems have meanings.

Are the Tarot Decks sent by satan to the world? I know i shouldnt ask or say that..but almost 98% of my friends said that. Is like..around 200 people? ~>,<~ How should i explain to them? They just never never want to believe me.

Coldsuns, quite the contrary.

Until quite recently, most people in Europe who used the Tarot were quite strong Christians - they certainly would not have agreed with such statements.

I agree with JMD (One of the master of Tarot history, in my opinion... Notice I say ONE OF... There are so many people around here that have amazing knowledge of Tarot history that makes me feel very young and stupid! )

Look at a deck of traditional Tarot cards. Maybe find a Marseilles deck, either online, or try a Rider Waite.

Now count how many images in these two decks are Christian and Catholic.. Even the Major Arcana are inherently Catholic, what with the Pope, Popess, Judgement...

I don't believe in Satan, cuz I'm not Christian. So personally I don't belive Tarot cards were sent to Earth by such a being. I believe the cards are bits of cardboard, created by human hands a long time ago in Europe, for gaming purposes, gambling purposes, and later on, divination purposes...

Kiama