Lee
Thanks very much, Cerulean, for the scans.
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Truth Seekers Tarot: David Fontana deck
Cerulean
The numerology explanation of David Fontana agrees with his
Anthony Louis' Numerology and Tarot description for suits...
http://accessnewage.com/articles/Tarot/Tarot3.htm
This is also agrees with David Fontana's descriptions of the pips.
Hope this helps.
Cerulean
Anthony Louis' Numerology and Tarot description for suits...
http://accessnewage.com/articles/Tarot/Tarot3.htm
This is also agrees with David Fontana's descriptions of the pips.
Hope this helps.
Cerulean
Lee
Cerulean, do each of the pip cards in a suit all have the same background, or is there some variation? For example, I see the Ace of Swords and the 3 of Swords have the same setting. Do all the Swords cards share this setting?
Thanks for providing so much info!
Thanks for providing so much info!
Cerulean
Cups as an example
Each suit have cards that share the same background, but they are scrambled up:
For example, cups:
Cards 1-3 same landscape with different numbers of cups, placements and embellishments.
1. Card One of cups has two streams of water pouring from a cup centered on a table against skies and hills and clouds. One cloud has a ray shooting to the middle of the cup.
2. Card Two shows the same landscape and table, but there are checkerboard
chairs on each side of the table, no water is streaming down and a small central motif in the distance that looks like the same scene in miniature in the center. The cloud with the ray now only shoots alongside the rightmost cup.
3.Card Three shows three centrally positioned cups on the table against the same scene--but a cup covers the distant view in the center. The cloud with the ray shows the ray partially in the middle cup, but seems to be nearer to the rightmost edge.
4. Card Four show ship in the harbor, four cups on the ship.
5. Card 5 shows a window overlooking sky, horizon and five cups on a table.
6. Card 6 shows clouds, sky, and hills of landscape one and a table with six cups balanced on it.
7. Card 7 shows ship in harbor, 4 cups on the pier, 3 on the sails.
8. Card 8 shows window with eight cups in the window tiers.
9. Card 9 shows nine cups in a circle with the ship in the harbor in the background.
10. Card 10 is ten cups pouring out their contents and also superimposed over the landscape first shown in card one.
I hope you can follow from my description Cards 1, 2,3, 10 share similar background; Cards 4,7 and 9 share a background; Cards 5, 8 share the same background...
Best regards,
Cerulean
Each suit have cards that share the same background, but they are scrambled up:
For example, cups:
Cards 1-3 same landscape with different numbers of cups, placements and embellishments.
1. Card One of cups has two streams of water pouring from a cup centered on a table against skies and hills and clouds. One cloud has a ray shooting to the middle of the cup.
2. Card Two shows the same landscape and table, but there are checkerboard
chairs on each side of the table, no water is streaming down and a small central motif in the distance that looks like the same scene in miniature in the center. The cloud with the ray now only shoots alongside the rightmost cup.
3.Card Three shows three centrally positioned cups on the table against the same scene--but a cup covers the distant view in the center. The cloud with the ray shows the ray partially in the middle cup, but seems to be nearer to the rightmost edge.
4. Card Four show ship in the harbor, four cups on the ship.
5. Card 5 shows a window overlooking sky, horizon and five cups on a table.
6. Card 6 shows clouds, sky, and hills of landscape one and a table with six cups balanced on it.
7. Card 7 shows ship in harbor, 4 cups on the pier, 3 on the sails.
8. Card 8 shows window with eight cups in the window tiers.
9. Card 9 shows nine cups in a circle with the ship in the harbor in the background.
10. Card 10 is ten cups pouring out their contents and also superimposed over the landscape first shown in card one.
I hope you can follow from my description Cards 1, 2,3, 10 share similar background; Cards 4,7 and 9 share a background; Cards 5, 8 share the same background...
Best regards,
Cerulean
Lee
Thanks so much, Cerulean. I really appreciate your taking the time to write all that out.
Sounds very interesting... I may break down and get this one...
Sounds very interesting... I may break down and get this one...
Lee
I ordered this deck and received it yesterday.
I was pleasantly surprised by the art. It's excellent, really delightful, and definitely a step up from the kind of art we usually get in "gift sets" like this. The pip cards especially, but the other cards as well, have a bit of an Indian look to them, perhaps because of Fontana's theories about the Hindu origins of the pip symbolism. The art reminds me a bit of Caroline Smith's art; not her art for the Elemental Tarot, but rather her art for the Moon Oracle.
I was disappointed, though, by the book. I had been hoping that Fontana would fully explain his numerological approach to the pips, and I had also hoped that the art on the pip cards would in some way illustrate or evoke Fontana's meanings, but alas, as far as I can tell, the art doesn't illustrate those meanings, except for a few scattered elements here and there. The pattern of repeated scene backdrops that Cerulean describes for the Cups suit isn't repeated for the other suits; in fact, each suit has its own pattern and it seems to me that these patterns are random and not related to any considerations of meaning.
For example, the meaning of the 4 of Cups is given as "secrecy, depth, introversion, the occult, things of the mind and a shifting fluid nature." First of all, I don't see how this relates to Fontana's given meaning for the Fours in general, which is "structure and order, which is demonstrated perfectly in the square, a shape which we have come to associate with dependability, conservatism and, above all, stability." Secondly, I don't see any suggestion of secrecy, depth, introversion, etc. in the card image, which shows a boat in a harbor carrying four cups.
Even worse, Fontana says the 7 of Cups represents "the esoteric, the occult act of concealment," in other words the same meaning as the 4, and the card image shows the same scene, a boat in a harbor, except instead of the four cups sitting on the boat, the 7 has four cups sitting on the shore and three of the boat's sails are illustrated with cups.
Perhaps there is indeed some overarching rationale behind all this, but if there is, it's going over my head. It's a shame, because I think an opportunity was wasted to have pip card illustrations which show interesting and attractive "scenes" (without people) and which also actually illustrate meanings suggested by numerological considerations.
There isn't a separate chapter for each pip card; instead, there's a chapter for the Aces, then the Twos, etc. In each of these short chapters, Fontana discusses numerological considerations and compares the individual cards to each other, so that specific card meanings have to be sifted out of the chapter, which is very inconvenient if you want to know what a specific card means. There's no sample reading so the reader is given no clue how Fontana's vague numerological speculations would apply in an actual reading. A tarot beginner would, I think, be quite at sea with this set.
I do think this could be a pleasant deck to read with, as long as you don't look for interpretative elements in the pip cards, but rather use them to sort of rest your eyes while you consider the card meanings. They certainly are pleasant to look at.
One more note -- for those pip cards whose "scenes" repeat, there are indeed some in which the image is subtly altered, for example the 2 of Cups, in which a table and two chairs and a house are added in. But there are other cards where the scene is exactly the same except for the number of pip symbols.
I was pleasantly surprised by the art. It's excellent, really delightful, and definitely a step up from the kind of art we usually get in "gift sets" like this. The pip cards especially, but the other cards as well, have a bit of an Indian look to them, perhaps because of Fontana's theories about the Hindu origins of the pip symbolism. The art reminds me a bit of Caroline Smith's art; not her art for the Elemental Tarot, but rather her art for the Moon Oracle.
I was disappointed, though, by the book. I had been hoping that Fontana would fully explain his numerological approach to the pips, and I had also hoped that the art on the pip cards would in some way illustrate or evoke Fontana's meanings, but alas, as far as I can tell, the art doesn't illustrate those meanings, except for a few scattered elements here and there. The pattern of repeated scene backdrops that Cerulean describes for the Cups suit isn't repeated for the other suits; in fact, each suit has its own pattern and it seems to me that these patterns are random and not related to any considerations of meaning.
For example, the meaning of the 4 of Cups is given as "secrecy, depth, introversion, the occult, things of the mind and a shifting fluid nature." First of all, I don't see how this relates to Fontana's given meaning for the Fours in general, which is "structure and order, which is demonstrated perfectly in the square, a shape which we have come to associate with dependability, conservatism and, above all, stability." Secondly, I don't see any suggestion of secrecy, depth, introversion, etc. in the card image, which shows a boat in a harbor carrying four cups.
Even worse, Fontana says the 7 of Cups represents "the esoteric, the occult act of concealment," in other words the same meaning as the 4, and the card image shows the same scene, a boat in a harbor, except instead of the four cups sitting on the boat, the 7 has four cups sitting on the shore and three of the boat's sails are illustrated with cups.
Perhaps there is indeed some overarching rationale behind all this, but if there is, it's going over my head. It's a shame, because I think an opportunity was wasted to have pip card illustrations which show interesting and attractive "scenes" (without people) and which also actually illustrate meanings suggested by numerological considerations.
There isn't a separate chapter for each pip card; instead, there's a chapter for the Aces, then the Twos, etc. In each of these short chapters, Fontana discusses numerological considerations and compares the individual cards to each other, so that specific card meanings have to be sifted out of the chapter, which is very inconvenient if you want to know what a specific card means. There's no sample reading so the reader is given no clue how Fontana's vague numerological speculations would apply in an actual reading. A tarot beginner would, I think, be quite at sea with this set.
I do think this could be a pleasant deck to read with, as long as you don't look for interpretative elements in the pip cards, but rather use them to sort of rest your eyes while you consider the card meanings. They certainly are pleasant to look at.
One more note -- for those pip cards whose "scenes" repeat, there are indeed some in which the image is subtly altered, for example the 2 of Cups, in which a table and two chairs and a house are added in. But there are other cards where the scene is exactly the same except for the number of pip symbols.
Hemera
I just found this deck and book set in a big bookstore yesterday. I had never heard of these before but they looked so nice that I bought them. I´m glad I did. The artwork is truly beautiful! Time will tell if these are good for reading but I think they probably are.
The cardstock is a bit thick and if I really start to use these they will need a trim (the white borders should go off, I´m sure that would make the colors really stand out). The box is indeed very big so a nice little tarot bag is needed to store them.
The cardstock is a bit thick and if I really start to use these they will need a trim (the white borders should go off, I´m sure that would make the colors really stand out). The box is indeed very big so a nice little tarot bag is needed to store them.
Cerulean
Compared this deck after a time to just a plain pip deck read...
I used Truthseekers in comparison to my Gaudais, a 19th century small gaming tarot reproduction by Il Fournier with Latin-suited pips and double-ended figures.
I'm glad to say the Truthseekers is cheerful and suggests more to me in the way of meanings. The small book did decently in hinting at ways to look at the scenes of the pip cards.
I'll probably only use this deck in card draws that aren't too complicated or as a comparison when I'm playing with my non-Rider-Waite-Smith or Thoth-based decks. The colors are pretty and while I'm not fond of plastic in my favored reading decks, the material is long-lasting. It actually works well as a backdrop my mixed deck reading with the Transparent (overlay the transparency over the plastic layout of two or three cards). This does have a
somewhat unique place in my reading decks...and a few of my Japanese manga decks are made of the similar plastic material.
There's a bit of a sparkle and charm in the metallic gold trim...and being silly me, I added a few colored star stickers over the 'plain' gold stars of the Pentacle cards.
Overall I can use this deck, but others may want to heed earlier comments about this deck not being worthwhile. PLEASE READ (returning with Post numbers)
1. Posts #8, #9, #10 for sample scans.
2. Posts #14 & #16 for negative or more detail commentary
3. Post #2 for ISBN and publishing information as of November 2008
And you are always welcome to start a new thread on your related concerns and reference or link back...as this thread was really about finding out general information on this deck.
Best wishes,
Cerulean
P.S. And if you can get better pictures than my poor cell-phone attempts, please feel free!
I used Truthseekers in comparison to my Gaudais, a 19th century small gaming tarot reproduction by Il Fournier with Latin-suited pips and double-ended figures.
I'm glad to say the Truthseekers is cheerful and suggests more to me in the way of meanings. The small book did decently in hinting at ways to look at the scenes of the pip cards.
I'll probably only use this deck in card draws that aren't too complicated or as a comparison when I'm playing with my non-Rider-Waite-Smith or Thoth-based decks. The colors are pretty and while I'm not fond of plastic in my favored reading decks, the material is long-lasting. It actually works well as a backdrop my mixed deck reading with the Transparent (overlay the transparency over the plastic layout of two or three cards). This does have a
somewhat unique place in my reading decks...and a few of my Japanese manga decks are made of the similar plastic material.
There's a bit of a sparkle and charm in the metallic gold trim...and being silly me, I added a few colored star stickers over the 'plain' gold stars of the Pentacle cards.
Overall I can use this deck, but others may want to heed earlier comments about this deck not being worthwhile. PLEASE READ (returning with Post numbers)
1. Posts #8, #9, #10 for sample scans.
2. Posts #14 & #16 for negative or more detail commentary
3. Post #2 for ISBN and publishing information as of November 2008
And you are always welcome to start a new thread on your related concerns and reference or link back...as this thread was really about finding out general information on this deck.
Best wishes,
Cerulean
P.S. And if you can get better pictures than my poor cell-phone attempts, please feel free!
BodhiSeed
Janet Boyer has a review on her site of this deck along with scans of a good many cards:
http://www.janetboyer.com/Truth_Seekers_Tarot.html
http://www.janetboyer.com/Truth_Seekers_Tarot.html
Cerulean
Janet Boyers scans are much better--thanks for the link!
I love her review and her scans--thanks much. All the gold accents show up as somewhat shadowy, but you can still see the gilding. I almost forgot to say the following addition:
Top row:
For example, the big sun on the right hand corner of the Tower card is a bright gold and the drops in the air and streaks in the river, even the grass blades in the foreground are liberally gilded and the best part about it is the gilding is underneath the lamination--so you can wipe the card and the card itself or the metallic ink is not scratched. I store the cards in the plastic box upright...but I may be tempted to take out the cardboard insert and just wrap the cloth or bag just as per my usual storage choice.
More gilding on the pip cards--every cup for instance on the design of the Queen of Cups dress is gilded with gold and on every number card with cups, the cups are gilded. The same for the swords, wands, stars (pentacles).
I'm eager to read what Janet Boyer has to say and am glad you found this review.
If I can find more reviews, I'll also link back...
Regards
Cerulean
I love her review and her scans--thanks much. All the gold accents show up as somewhat shadowy, but you can still see the gilding. I almost forgot to say the following addition:
Top row:
For example, the big sun on the right hand corner of the Tower card is a bright gold and the drops in the air and streaks in the river, even the grass blades in the foreground are liberally gilded and the best part about it is the gilding is underneath the lamination--so you can wipe the card and the card itself or the metallic ink is not scratched. I store the cards in the plastic box upright...but I may be tempted to take out the cardboard insert and just wrap the cloth or bag just as per my usual storage choice.
More gilding on the pip cards--every cup for instance on the design of the Queen of Cups dress is gilded with gold and on every number card with cups, the cups are gilded. The same for the swords, wands, stars (pentacles).
I'm eager to read what Janet Boyer has to say and am glad you found this review.
If I can find more reviews, I'll also link back...
Regards
Cerulean
