By Jove i think i understand jeeves....

dadsnook2000

A book and a calculator . . . or . . .

One of today's biggest problems for early-studies students is that they only know of using computers. A good astrological education would include having a knowledge of how to calculate charts, progressions-directions-returns, by hand. In order to pass any of the certification steps of the various astrological organizations, one has to know about these things.

I learned these processes in the first month of astrological studies with Jeff Mayo using a book by Margret Hone, both of the UK. Those books are dated now, but the methods haven't changed a single bit. Although such an approach may be dreaded by today's students, anyone who took time to study these hand calculations would end up being far more capable far faster.

I should think that you can find these methods on-line with a bit of searching. Probably the AFAR site or some such organization. Or, Google. Dave
 

214red

i agree its laziness, i was taught to build my natal chart by hand (found that part boring) and it helped when i was going back to the ephermeris. i do have a few books that i can use for calculations, when i was tidying up reading for my move i found a book i got as a present when i first started being interested in astrology, in 1992!
the art of astrology by Sheila geddes
 

Minderwiz

Like Dave, I first learned my Astrology in the late 1960s and early 1970s, Computers were huge machines that occupied a whole suite of rooms in the University Campus and the idea of having one at home was non-exsitent (except in Science Fiction stories) There weren't any calculators either. So you had to buy a book on natal charting and work from there.

Now today I only use a computer, and I guess the same goes for Dave but learning how a chart is generated does help because we're all used to the mistakes such as entering the time or date incorrectly. If you know how a chart is created you will have some good idea as to what it should look like and spot the 'duff' chart.

However we should also recognise that producing the chart (either by hand or by computer) is the easy bit. The difficult bit is to make sense of it - the interpretation. :)
 

214red

i think in my struggle to run before i could walk, i forgot about delving into aspects as much as i should (didnt help that my book on specially on aspects got lost in the post) .
by concentrating on the aspects more, and then moving to transits i thhink i will find that missing piece of the puzzle
 

Minderwiz

I know this will seem like heresy to some but in order to walk before you run, don't go overboard on aspects. You can do very nicely simply using the traditional aspects and the conjunction (which is NOT an aspect).

Aspects are graded in in power (from strongest to weakest)

The Opposition (which is Saturnine in nature)
The Square (which is Martial)
The Trine (Jovial)
The Sextile (Venusian)

The Conjunction is stronger than any aspect.

The strength of any one of these aspects is determined by two further factors, whether it is Applying or Separating and the orb. Modern Astrologers give orbs to aspects. Traditional Astrologers gave orbs to planets (which actually makes a lot more sense).

You can add in aspect patterns or all the other minor aspects invented by Kepler and others as and when you like but the above actually gives you enough tools to do quite sophisticated Astrology. Indeed the only other type of 'aspect' I use is the antiscion and contrascion.

However I do use the aspects in 'conjunction' with the accidental and essential dignities of the planets, (the main determinants of the strength or weakness of the planets and indeed the chart).
 

dadsnook2000

Even less may be better.

In my predictive work, I only use conjunctions, oppositions and squares.

And, yes, it does make more sense to apply "orbs" of influence to planets rather than aspects --- although we (as teachers) often suggest orbs for aspects so as to lessen the chance that a newbie will want to consider a 14 degree out-of-contact sextile between two planets.

Saturn and Mars are often "strong" in a chart and will make their presence felt six or seven degrees away (in transiting terms). Mercury and Venus sometimes are quite weak in their obvious influences and we may want to consider them as effective only within a degree or two.

Sun needs to have its "influence" considered relative to what we are using the Sun for. As an influence with another planet, it is effective over many degrees. As a "timing" factor we may want to keep its orb very tight -- a degree or two.

The Moon is another "planet" which has to be looked at in several ways. As an influence, its orb is quite a bit larger than its timing orb which is variably applied by many astrologers --- I like to keep its timing of actions/events at a tight orb of two degrees or less. As an influence, it might be quite wide, even out to 10 degrees.

NATAL charts can be "exceptions" depending upon HOW WE ARE USING THEM. When just doing general reviews, it seems safe to go with using orbs that are typically assigned to aspects. When looking for specific character traits it is better to use tighter orbs --- although I would shift over to using mid-points, Uranian TNPs and Asteroids (in some cases).

Its all a bit fluid depending upon the work-approach of the astrologer, the skill level, the scope of learning and experience. But, any combination of methods and techniques just can't be thrown together. Some methods work well in some combinations but not in others.

My thoughts. Dave
 

214red

thanks both of you, i think i tried to skip natal aspects by only studying the basics before wanting to jump into predictive astrology.
so i have rushed off thinking i want to do be predicitive astrology with shaky foundations.

i got distracted with the bright lights of the partial eclipse on 31st , and then the sparkly lights of progressions as i seem to have lots of progressions that i found interesting (just found out as per astro.com that i have ASC, Venus into 6th, mercury and mars move signs) so i decided i wanted to know all about these new sparkly things rather then finish of the basics which now seems a false economy.

I do feel slight depressed about venus now in virgo moving into the 6th, not good for my love life at all, not that it exists now anyways, but even still...depressing lol!
 

Minderwiz

214red said:
I do feel slight depressed about venus now in virgo moving into the 6th, not good for my love life at all, not that it exists now anyways, but even still...depressing lol!

Of course it might indicate a romance with the handsome guy who comes to repair your plumbing/TV/HiFi/Washing machine, etc - The sixth house being the house of servants (and allegedly such people are in our employ, so are servants) and Venus is the planet of love
 

214red

Minderwiz said:
Of course it might indicate a romance with the handsome guy who comes to repair your plumbing/TV/HiFi/Washing machine, etc - The sixth house being the house of servants (and allegedly such people are in our employ, so are servants) and Venus is the planet of love

i love that idea, however my venus in leo worries, she doesnt think a repair man can keep her in the style she is used to, she is slightly shallow and worries...lol

although i keep having the page of pentacles show up in romantic readings, tht used to show up for a work flirtation, and i can see that in virgo in the 6th house, scary thought!

thanks Minderwiz