Planet Series: Saturn -- Friend or Foe?

dadsnook2000 said:

** Natal Saturn in the sixth house **
This "taking stock of me" house suites Saturn quite well. One seems capable of accepting what Saturn offers and is able to restructure rules, legacies, and the constraints of others so as to better ones work habits, effectiveness, and ability to help others along the way. Energy levels may be down and a lack of self-discipline may signify levels of depression from time to time.

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Well apart from the depression which I don't really get (though have down days like most people ) ...... this I think is pretty accurate. I'm pretty organised and am seen as such at work ... and very determined (my Sun is trining Saturn) and quite *aggressive* (Saturn in Aries?) .... although Saturn was retrograde in my natal chart.

I also have Saturn in quincux with both Neptune and Uranus (tight degrees I believe) ..... so would this indicate a tendency to wander off into my own world from time to time (especially at work LOL)?

Would the fact that Saturn is less than 45 degrees from my MC give me more obstacles in this area too?

I forgot to mention my Saturn is in Sagittarius. When I read about Saturn and it's need to limit and control, and then realize Sagittarius is more about freedoms and ideals, it makes me think I was more fortunate to have Sagittarius as a bearer of bad news, lol. But I think Saturn is Saturn is Saturn no matter what. I take my beliefs very seriously. Especially since Pluto is square and Mercury and the Asc are in a loose semisquare between the two (maybe my birth time is off a bit and they are closer). I always thought Saturn fought Pluto in my life. Devil against Devil, or maybe Devil's Advocate. I love playing Devil's advocate. I see it as Pluto always trying to test the limits of Saturn. Uncovering and exposing what Saturn wants to control. This comes out as rebelliousness against rules and authority, even though my mind tells me rules are necessary. I'm not a rule breaker all the time, if it's good (remember it's my reasoning) it's good. But if it violates my sense of righteousness, I start splitting hairs until the battle is won. People that are natural Saturn types (enjoy rules and enforcing them) will eventually see me as a rebel (rebel = me saying it more nicely that what they would say, lol).

Some comments

White Raven
Your Saturn is in your 10th house so it is important in your chart. The fact that it is less than 45 degrees from the MC doesn't seem so relevant here. When we look at phase relationships we are looking a cyclic positions which have a meaning -- a meaning which is quite helpful when an aspect to that planet doesn't exist or when the planet is not at/near an angle. So, I would focus on "Saturn in the 10th" instead.

Stardancer
Saturn having strong aspects to other planets makes Saturn very strong and evident in a chart. The aspectual relationships often take on more meaning than sign and house positions as the conflict of energies and purposes seems to rise to the top of our personalities and attention that we give to them. I'm looking forward to the time we finally address aspects -- by then, the list as a whole will be well prepared to understand and work with them.

huredriel
Saturn in a yod with Uranus and Neptune gets a very bad review by Ebertin in his book The Combination of Stellar Influences -- a book which every single astrologer has and which every astrology student should have. He says that the key focus of Uranus/Neptune as a pair is "the elimination of the waking consciousness." And with Saturn involved, "depression, instability,pessimism. A painful loss, mourning or bereavement" when a transit occurs.

Remember that Ebertins research was conducted between World War * and World War II, and after World War II in Germany. His father has also done research in this topical area around the turn of the century when times were hard in Europe. All of this pessimism comes through. In todays world, we sometimes see a broader scope applied to these meanings, although the original meanings he gave also apply in many cases. Your observation about "wandering off into your own little world" is quite appropriate, wouldn't you say? There is also the difficult melding of meanings for these three planets: structure, demolition, idealism might be three keywords that would lead you to think about "finding new ways to improve processes and enable dreams or visionary goals to be met" or something like that. Does this suggest to you that you could write and inspire others, or be a business consultant, or express yourself thru writing as a way to influence others?

And who said Saturn couldn't be fun or interesting? Dave Wizzle?!

Just some help needed please Dave. What are my Saturns in? I put up my details but Im not making any sense of anything here. I can look them up once I know though Thankyou!!

Blessings
Elven x

LOL!! Please dont say "Top drawer, left hand side" - I already looked - they're not there

Found it!! - WhiteRaven has pm'd me - thanks WR

dadsnook2000 said:

** First Quadrant of the chart **
The movement of Saturn through the first quadrant or first three houses of your chart, according to Marc Robertson, represents A PERSONAL GROWTH IN DEPTH. As you live within your life, your surroundings, and project yourself thruough your activities and presence, you will come face to face with reality. What you were is not how you are now required to be. Life will bring you opportunities to redifine your self. In fact, DEFINITION seems to be one of Saturn's more important keywords. We will keep this sense of how Saturn may be experienced in life as it transits our first quadrant while we examine the natal position of Saturn in these houses.

** Natal Saturn in the second house **
We are preoccupied with making sure that we know our basis for being, just what our personal values and preferences are. We tend to work hard to get a basis of substance put in place, to order our resources, to stake out what is important to us and about us. Do we have enough? Is our list of "enough" complete?

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My Saturn is in the 2nd House, at 4 degrees Taurus. This placement has always confused me. I am not sure I am "preoccupied with making sure I know my basis for being". I may not understand what that statement means. I feel that I have always known my values, and was pretty stubborn in my conviction that I was right. I have chnaged my opinions/views on many subjects as I have aged, mellowed somewhat, and have definitely lost the idea that I am "right".

Ordering my resources, this doesn't sound like me. Is this regarding financial resources? I am not into spending lots of money, but when I need to make a purchase I try to buy the best that I can afford. But mainly, I am not a "shopper" nor a collector of material things. I have also always had a strong sense of being modest, regardless of the amount of wealth one has, I do not feel it is tasteful to flaunt money, whether it is through words (i.e. bragging about one's possesions/cars/homes) or through gaudy purchases that are meant to show off one's wealth. It just seems so wrong, other than being tacky, to have something, like a hundred thousand dollar ring, when there is so much poverty in the world. Not sure if my natal Saturn has anything to do with any of this.

Also, my saturn is trine my MC, and and I think in a sextile with my Sun and Venus, a square with my mercury...and I can't recall the term for what it is doing with my Jupiter ...(jup is at 5 degrees scorp, 8th)

i have saturn in capricorn in the 5th house - i have had few relationships and not much luck in matters of the heart - i have always been too serious in affairs of the heart - i dont flirt well or take it all lightly like you should and have fun - maybe it will all go good in my later life then

i was wise beyond my years as a child so i am told - never played with dolls but preferred books - i have in the past looked for father figures in relationships - i have never quite managed to realise my own self worth - i know it but it hasn't clicked yet - and as for children - when i gave birth i had the hardest time of my life not only in physically giving birth - had to have an emergency caesarian after i had it all PLANNED and had read every book and magazine imaginable i was more expert than some nurses (saturn yes) how i was going to have a home birth but ever since had panic attacks/depression etc thinking how on earth am i going to be a good mother and make my child's life successful

having said all that i crack a good joke and in a way im like a professional comedian in many circles - good side of saturn in the 5th - always wanted to be an actress but making people laugh will do i guess

last thing i will gass about here is i have always been too hard on myself - beat myself up too much too much - thats saturn in the 5th i guess as well as sun square saturn (though wide square - 8 degrees)

Astrid O said:

Ordering my resources, this doesn't sound like me. Is this regarding financial resources? I am not into spending lots of money, but when I need to make a purchase I try to buy the best that I can afford. But mainly, I am not a "shopper" nor a collector of material things. I have also always had a strong sense of being modest, regardless of the amount of wealth one has, I do not feel it is tasteful to flaunt money, whether it is through words (i.e. bragging about one's possesions/cars/homes) or through gaudy purchases that are meant to show off one's wealth. It just seems so wrong, other than being tacky, to have something, like a hundred thousand dollar ring, when there is so much poverty in the world. Not sure if my natal Saturn has anything to do with any of this.

Also, my saturn is trine my MC, and and I think in a sextile with my Sun and Venus, a square with my mercury...and I can't recall the term for what it is doing with my Jupiter ...(jup is at 5 degrees scorp, 8th)

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Hey Astrid - I've got something sort of similar/opposite to you. Saturn's in 8th conjunct Jupiter. My attitude is exactly the same when it comes to material value. Quality over quantity, tasteful not tacky.

** Saturn in the 8th house **
This is the "house of unequal sharing" and Saturn here often accomplishes what it first thought of in the 7th house -- what's really in it for me, how much do I have to give up?" Here, Saturn seeks to understand the resources and values of others, to look beyond the surface, to mine for nuggets of gold. Saturn seems to understand reality at this point. Finances, partnership demands, dissolving partnerships and marriages, salvaging what one can from life's battles, understanding death and mortality, all of this and more is Saturn in the 8th house.

This is pretty spot on.

Here's a funny story for a Saturnian kid (Cap sun) - I started investing money when I was 12 or 14. I think my first investment was a negligable amount and the bond matured after 3 years, but dear god, for a young girl, it was a helluva lot of money and 3 years seemed like an eternity!! Still, it was sort of a neat concept at the time to just leave your dollars lying around somewhere to go forth and multiply.

What else? I was always fascinated by death and funerals. Oh, and unlike most ppl, I don't get pissed off about taxes. Another "unequal sharing" thing. Financially priviledged folks should pay taxes out their a** is how I see it, and I'm saying this born and raised in a highly priveledged, right leaning household.

I should add though, that my Saturn experience is heavily modified by the Jupiter conjunction.

More comments

For Elven
I haven't run your chart yet as you only recently added your information on the list of participants, but your Saturn appears to be in the 10th or 11th house. This is funny because you said, "don't tell me its in the top left drawer" or something to that effect -- and, indeed, Saturn is in the top left section of your chart. Oh my. For now you can read both the 10th house and 11th house meanings for Saturn and see what fits. I'll try to run your chart and take a look at it later.

For isthmus nekoi
I'm glad you can identify digging deeper for nuggets of gold (quality, not quantity) and that the rest of the definition resonates so well. This is how the list members get to more fully understand the meanings behind the planets and the houses -- having someone you "know" share those things really helps. This, of course, is the value of AT, the willingness of the list to be open and to share so as to help others. Thank you.

For star-lover
Saturn brings some degree of discomfort and the need to prove to ourselves our worth to each of us. Perhaps thats what a good teacher does, but the methods that Saturn uses often seem harsh.

For Astrid O
Your Saturn shares the 2nd house with Mars (two opposites there) and is in opposition to Jupiter in the 8th (another type of opposite) and square Merc in the 11th (a kind of referee position). This strong T-Square pattern, by itself, suggests a need for variety and change, adjustments in what you want or need, among other thngs. I'd say that this easily overpowers the meaning of Saturn-by-itself because you have to treat this as Saturn-Jupiter-Mercury.

Saturn and Mars is a "stop and go" thing. Saturn opposite Jupiter is a "should I or shouldn't I?" and a balancing act. The pattern is asking poor Mercury to choose between the two heavyweights -- I might suspect that you often use the opinions or suggestions or even "slight inferences" of others to help you choose at times. Now, ask me where that came from!

Like I said before, Saturn can be fun. Star-lover would agree with that. Dave

Hi Dave

This is what I got from my chart:

Saturn in 5th house:

You tend to be somewhat unemotional, undemonstrative and
inhibited. The expression of father/daughter love is important
to overcome these limitations. In spite of your shyness, you
will be deep and loyal with your feelings, though you may prefer
the company of older people to those in your age bracket. Your
creativity can lean towards sciences and inventions. You will
choose as a companion a serious and responsible person but it is
probable that you will have few children because you consider
them a great responsibility. You must learn to enjoy yourself
more and to express your emotions with the intensity with which
they occur.

Saturn in Gemini:

You express yourself clearly but you can have some
difficulty thinking about indefinite, intangible or abstract
ideas. You must learn to develop your intuition and also your
emotional responses because your ability to understand others
could be limited. It is important that you learn to be flexible
in your way of thinking and more relaxed in your manner of
communication. You will demonstrate in the future a great
ability to carry abstract ideas into real practice. This
position is very good for mental, scientific or mathematical
tasks. It is important that you study because your future
success depends in great measure on your knowledge.

Saturn Trine Uranus:

You have much willpower, initiative and an endless
determination. You combine your practicality with intuition and
you possess a great common sense, much administrative ability,
and you are persistent in your objectives. Inside you maintain a
balance between the old and the new, authority and your own
freedom. You will fulfill your duties responsibly but will seek
to accentuate your own independence; you need to work freely.
You will direct your creative energy effectively and will be a
hard and tenacious worker.

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It mentions that it could be a difficulty for me, in other words, can be considered a foe:

Saturn in the Fifth House

You hold yourself back and have a habit of expressing the weaker
side of your personality first. Have courage in your self
expression and you will be able to help others and build a
bigger picture of yourself by doing so.

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Bec