Planet Series: Saturn -- Friend or Foe?

For rcb30872

Those are some interesting quotes, I'm not sure what the source is, but they sure are quite comprehensive. You didn't say whether they were fully correct and applicable to you or not.

Whether those quotes were fully or mostly correct, keep in mind that one of the concepts that I am trying to convey in these posts are that it is highly useful to forget about collecting a lot of detail -- some of which may be right, some of which is not helpful -- and concentrate on the few or several things in a chart that are significant.

"Significant" means planets involved in tight aspectual relationships, planets that are angular or isolated planets that are located in one part of the chart away from the other planets, etc.

What we do with the few/several significant points is to grasp a single or a couple of sentances that provide a core, simple meaning. Build upon a few simple meanings THAT ARE MEANINGFUL and then there is no doubt about which of the zillion details (that books provide) to fit with the essential character. Now we get to being more accurate. More concise, Much more understandable to the client. Simplicity work best. Dave

Hi Dave

I got these from FutureMinders, it is a sight on the internet, sorry, don't have the link:

Saturn in 5th house:

You tend to be somewhat unemotional, undemonstrative and
inhibited. The expression of father/daughter love is important
to overcome these limitations.

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This is true, I am all of the above. Unfortunately for me there was not much expression of father/daughter love.

Your creativity can lean towards sciences and inventions. You will
choose as a companion a serious and responsible person but it is
probable that you will have few children because you consider
them a great responsibility. You must learn to enjoy yourself
more and to express your emotions with the intensity with which
they occur.

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Well, I did study Science. I do tend to prefer a serious and responsible partner, but not too serious . I have one child, and do not intend to have any more, yes, they are a great responsibility, a responsibility that sometimes I doubt whether I can handle effectively. Yes, I can be a bit of a wet blanket at times, and have great difficulty in expressing my emotions

Saturn in Gemini:

You express yourself clearly but you can have some
difficulty thinking about indefinite, intangible or abstract
ideas. You must learn to develop your intuition and also your
emotional responses because your ability to understand others
could be limited.

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Don't necessarily agree with this!

It is important that you learn to be flexible
in your way of thinking and more relaxed in your manner of
communication. You will demonstrate in the future a great
ability to carry abstract ideas into real practice. This
position is very good for mental, scientific or mathematical
tasks. It is important that you study because your future
success depends in great measure on your knowledge.

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Have to agree with the above. I have learnt to be more flexible in my thinking, or at least getting there, communication can be a bit strained, as I can have difficulty relaxing when communicating with others, but that is getting easier. I think that must be the case, as this forum is a great example of that. Scientific, studied science. Agree with the last statement as well, have always liked study, so that is not a problem for me

Saturn Trine Uranus:

You have much willpower, initiative and an endless
determination. You combine your practicality with intuition and
you possess a great common sense, much administrative ability,
and you are persistent in your objectives. Inside you maintain a
balance between the old and the new, authority and your own
freedom. You will fulfill your duties responsibly but will seek
to accentuate your own independence; you need to work freely.
You will direct your creative energy effectively and will be a
hard and tenacious worker.

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Willpower, initiative and endless determination, yes, as long as I don't get hit by "procrastination". Common sense, most definitely, I can explain things to others which they have difficulty with, but in my mind it is obvious and very easy to understand. Love my freedom, but at the same time respect authority. Yes, I am a hard and tenacious worker, will not stop until the work has been finished, in some cases

It mentions that it could be a difficulty for me, in other words, can be considered a foe:

Saturn in the Fifth House

You hold yourself back and have a habit of expressing the weaker
side of your personality first. Have courage in your self
expression and you will be able to help others and build a
bigger picture of yourself by doing so.

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True, I do hold myself back. Tend to keep my thoughts and feelings to myself, and there are a lot of things that I would have liked to try, but not have done so, because I thought that I would only fail at it anyway. Not very good with self-expression.

Sorry, Dave, should have added my bits and pieces in earlier!!!

Bec

dadsnook2000 said:

SATURN IN THE FOURTH QUADRANT
This placement puts your focus upon the issues that relate to how you are to function within the world and how you are going to be influential.

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'Function' may have much to do with how I interact in the world and with others. This may have been the reason for searching firstly to find a 'psychological structure' which could adequately support a range of endevours, and secondly, working out what 'influence' is and how it worked.

Luckily, (if thats how it can be viewed) - I have been given the opportunity, and 'circumstantial freedom', to find and explore such avenues. But early in the process, lack of personal boundaries did not equate to 'freedom'. Finding 'structures' helped hone my energies, and intention, build foundations, from which then, I could find focus and purpose. It helped to some degree to stop the scattered and scrambled mentality and approach.

dadsnook2000 said:

Ready or not, you are in the position of having "just graduated" and you seem destined to be thrust out kicking and screaming into the wide, wide world.

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Time seemed to be an important factor - and 'feeling' that the 'sand was running through the hourglass' often was the catalst to move on - ready or not. I feel the influence of Saturn often kicked me along here, just when I was getting cosy too

dadsnook2000 said:

Since we are talking about natal Saturn here, this means you will be "scramble" mode to keep pace with your challenges and then succeed and lead others along the paths you are just discovering for yourself.

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This must be conecting with me on a deeper level of consciousness - I already feel tired just reading it. "Scramble" - can sometimes feel more like 'in earnst', a keen sense of timing, and preparation prior, are necessary components to be ready to 'present' coherantly, when the time arrives - and it usually does. Theres always the fear that I will miss the boat - yet I make sure everyone is on the boat first, and Im the last one to board. Maybe this is why I am always very early - or very late LOL!!

dadsnook2000 said:

** Saturn in the 11th house **
Saturn will likely require that you grow, mature and strengthen yourself thru cooperative associations with others -- where you work within an overall strategy, where you are rewarded within the overall strategy. Influence of others, from others, is seen here. Saturn sees influence as a refinement of reality and can work within that reality.

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I find this very interesting - for a few reasons. Firstly, my preference is to be alone at this age - but after reading this, I feel as if that could be quite detremental to what Im actually trying to achieve - whatever that is - as I am aware, from past experience, that being part of a wider community helps me (and others) to achieve for a wider purpose. Often though, what I have found, what confronts me, relates to my ability to 'attract' competition and bullying to myself in light of my efforts, where I loose my sense of self and 'ownership' of my contributions. Possibly then there are other influences tied into this lesson.
'Influence' seems to be the operative word here. Influence from others, and being myself influencial - this is not something I relish, as I find there is an enormous amount of responsibility attatched to this aspect. In a 'leadership' position, or a position of responsibility, I reach a certain point and collapse in a heap. I usually give up - as I feel a 'strong conviction of self' and a 'strong mind' is necessary to see things through - Sometimes I make neither of these things available to me (at the most critical time) and find myself running for the hills - or bowing out at 'gateway' moments of my process. This only serves to find myself having to start over again in another field - I dont just burn my bridges - I blow them sky high. Though I can conclude, that is my opinion, and I have the support from 'peers' who understand my cause and endevour - and often see it clearer than I can.

Blessings
Elven x

Is Saturn relevant anywhere else in my chart?

You know I had a thought (amazing that eh) ..... trawling through some of these threads to help me with the Saturn and Jupiter thread!!

dadsnook2000 said:

huredriel
Saturn in a yod with Uranus and Neptune gets a very bad review by Ebertin in his book The Combination of Stellar Influences -- a book which every single astrologer has and which every astrology student should have. He says that the key focus of Uranus/Neptune as a pair is "the elimination of the waking consciousness." And with Saturn involved, "depression, instability,pessimism. A painful loss, mourning or bereavement" when a transit occurs.

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The bit about elimination of the waking consciousness ...... with my Saturn in Aries (and I also have my north node in Aries) I was wondering whether perhaps this is a big step in my karmic growth/development (Saturn) ....... trying to move to the higher self ...... the more unconscious planes and getting rid of the clutter and waste that is no longer needed (Saturn)?

For huredriel

Elimination, definition, scrapping that which isn't needed, refining, seperation of one thing from another -- this is much of what Saturn is all about. Contrast that with what Edgar Cayce once stated about Saturn . . . "Saturn is where you choose not to grow." It's hard to reconcile everything that has been written about Saturn.

Ebertin's views, while amazingly appropriate in many, many cases were first developed, applied, tested and restated during two major wars in Europe. Some consider his interpretations to be harsh. The Siderealists also have harsh things to say about Mars, Saturn, Pluto -- so these two groups (which I feel deeply affiliated with) are really down on Saturn in many cases. We each have to define our own Saturn, our own hell.

Seeing the context that the planet has to work in, how you have used it in the past, is all part of the art of the astrologer. So, I try to find softer ways of viewing and working with Saturn. I don't see a need to eliminate one's consciousness although having experiences in which we can work without its limitations can be useful and growth stimulating. Dave

So much to read!! I wish I had had more time to read this all when it was being avidly discussed, but school had to come first.

** Natal Saturn in the sixth house **
This "taking stock of me" house suites Saturn quite well. One seems capable of accepting what Saturn offers and is able to restructure rules, legacies, and the constraints of others so as to better ones work habits, effectiveness, and ability to help others along the way. Energy levels may be down and a lack of self-discipline may signify levels of depression from time to time.

I have also read that when a saturn in sixth seeks work, they will be somewhat stunted for 6 years (approx.) However, if you quit to find better work, it starts the cycle over! A friend of mine I read cards for was into astrology (about the time I started learning astrology), and she told me "whenever saturn leaves a house, he leaves a present at the door."

I have to say, I only believe saturn leaves a 'present' if you have learned what it was trying to teach. She was worried at the time because it was beginning to transit her 7th house. I havent been in contact with her since, unfortunately, but if I get to talk with her I'll see how that went.

Edited to add:
WHOOPS, this makes a big difference: I have a sun-saturn conjunction which changes the interpretation.

I also want to add something about the first house:


** Natal Saturn in the first house **
One appears cautious and reserved, especially in early life. A lack of confidence requires us to define strategies for success and acceptance. Being still and unnoticed until we map out the surroundings we find ourselves in is typical. Trying to get others to live by "the rules" often leads to frustration as we try to equate "our rules and constraints" against what others have or don't have for rules and constraints.

I have a friend who has saturn in the first house, and I found it to be a sign that in their early childhood (early--when their surroundings define who they are in the coming year), they had a setback of some sort.

She grew up in a bad neighborhood with some awkward neighbors (a foreign family was across the street, the grandma was known to come outside and proceed to urinate on the front lawn). Her family of 3 would eat fast food for meals, and sometimes they did not eat at all. Her parents had to work all the time. Her father turned out to be emotionally and somewhat physically abusive today.

So in a summary, I would think of saturn in the first house to say that it held back in an early stage (externally) that affected the core of the person. She has also had some stages of attention seeking.

Saturn -- a lifetime of study and experience in itself

Saturn is one of astrology's most important factors. We can study Saturn forever and still uncover lessons to learn and assimilate. If only one thing could be said of Saturn it is that "Saturn teaches us about life and ourselves within that life." If Saturn plays a strong role in your chart, don't fight it, go with the flow and just accept it. Doing so will reward you. Fighting against Saturn's lessons just isn't worth it. Star Trek's programs (on TV) about the alien race that always says, "resistance is futile, we will assimilate you" reminds me of Saturn's policies for us.

Its nice to see that some are still refering to prior-written material. Dave

Astrologically, Saturn is as far away froom the Sun as you can get - shown by the Opposition of Aquarius, (Saturn's diurnal sign) from Leo. Traditionally Saturn is seen as Cold and Dry, which leads to it's association with structures, containers, and our bodies in general as containers for the soul and inparticular the skin and skeleton which give our bodies shape and form.

Saturn has always been seen as a more difficult planet to deal with than the rest - hence it's nickname as 'the greater malefic'. However Saturn is not always malefic - in it's diurnal sign of Aquairus it provides the impetus to scientific approaches and it's exaltation in Libra also provides Saturn with a strength that can bring success. Traditional Astrology gave several levels of strength or dignity to planets and in day charts (where the Sun is above the horizon) Saturn in Libra can be stronger and more dignified than Venus. Indeed Saturn above the horizon in your chart (houses 12 - 7) can be a lot more positive than Saturn below the horizon. The argument for this is that the sunlight warms Saturn and makes him more active and helpful. For those of you with Saturn in the tenth you might have a rather more beneficial teacher.

If you have aspects from Saturn to other planets or the ASC/MC it's well worth examining whether Saturn is dignified and therefore more inclined to be positive in your charts.

Saturn angular and direct shows an ability to act, so a First house Saturn in Libra trine to the Sun will provide you with a well disciplined and directed support for realising your aims. A poorly placed Saturn (sixth, eighth or twelfth) will weaken Saturn's ability to act and a debilitated Saturn (no positive dignity) gives you a Saturn that gets in the way.

This could show up as fear of the consequences causing you not to act on some opportunity, never being decisiive or simply procastination.

All of these can be overcome if you are aware of them. Directing and controlling your Saturn energy becomes the main feature of life after your first Saturn return.

Glad this thread was pulled up - Thanks for everyone who shared their personal stories. it has been an amazing read...

My Saturn is in the 1st house, right on my AC, in Taurus.
It opposes pretty much everything - Sun, Jupiter and Venus (all in Scorpio).

I have felt Saturn tremendously in general, but the worst was on my Saturn return, around 29, when I was hit with both psychological but also physical problems (I had a 4 month long, violent allergic attack on my skin)--talking about Saturn having to do with skin. (and btw, i'm one fo those people that i'm never sick, but always have a rash somewhere)
After all this was gone, I rose like new, both from the inside and outside, let go of many rules (my own and imposed by others), and started a very creative time of my life, where I put a lot of structure (rules turning into structure) to my creative expression.

I like big undertakings, those that seem impossible at first, but then I break them into pieces and actually do it.

As a child, I grew up alone. My parents divorced when I was 4, and they each went off to another country to live, and I was raised by my grandparents. (I guess that has to do with "age" too). I was a happy kid for those who didn't really know me. Otherwise, I was very serious, asking always foundamental questions, and spending time with older people than kids my age.
Always quite reserved, as a teenager I totally didn't fit into the "scene" - although never really anti-social, just didn't want to give in to the trends. I had different kind of rebellions to act on...

Now, Saturn is better for me. I'm still always amazed, after a long lesson, thinking that I have "learned", then realising that I still can't graduate (life long, yes, life long...). Looking symbolically at Saturn, and being aware, really helps...
In general, I think maturity fits me and suits me. It allows me to feel better being me, than to conform to other's rules and regulations, for the sake of acceptance (a very important issue in the past).