Court Cards

I've been reading past threads and i don't think i've seen such a topic previously, so i apologize if this question seems repetitious (or simplistic).

An aquaintence/friend of mine inquired something the other day while we were talking about the tarot. It was something i've wondered from time to time but never seemed to take the energy to form the actual question.

In the development over time the tarot and playing cards line up, at least the minor arcana. So, why are there only three court cards (jack, queen, king) in the standard deck of playing cards vs. four court cards in most tarot deck, titles vary from deck to deck.

Any input on this? I live in a very secluded area, the library doesn't have much (any) info. I have limited sources and all insight and guidance/pointers is appreciated.

Valets

There is an assumption that the Knights were added,
because of the addition of the horses on these images.

The carry over in playing cards of the name Jacks adds
to the confusion. Pages are the obvious addition, though
again they are often termed Knaves. Valet is much better.

Valets (footmen) bring a new, and much needed aspect
to the three "reigning" dignitaries: an intangible quality
of new beckonings, changes in progress, and transitions.

The earliest document (1377) from Johannes of Rheinfelden in Freiburg im Breisgau (southern Germany) notes various types of court cards compositions. The major part seems to have 3 court cards and the later tradition of German cards suggests, that there were mainly three 3 male cards: King, Ober and Unter, Ober and Unter differentiated usually by a suit sign, that was either in upper part (Ober) or lower part (Unter). But Johannes already knew compositions with Queens and he also did know construction with 5 court cards.

The earliest 4 court card composition appeared in a preaching of San Bernardino (in Bologna, Italy) against card playing in 1423, it was that, which is known by Tarot.

An article to Johannes of Rheinfelden you find in the menu left

http://trionfi.com/0/e1/

with a lot of other documentation about early playing cards. At

http://trionfi.com/0/j/

you find many links to old playing card decks, which show, that thwere had been many creative constructions.

Just through research, especially with the 'playing cards' the deck was originally designed as to the enviromnent, universe and astrology.
The significance of the 'playing card' courts, was that there were to be 13(12+1) cards in each suit to represent the 12 zodiacal signs, 12 months, and 12 of every other historical event plus 1(13th) as sun, king, Jesus, King Arthur, Jacob, etc.
And the 3 royalty cards as representing the trinity. Therefore the pages or Knight? were added. 14 cards to a suit just doesn't fit into any natural design, if that makes sense.
But I will throw a spanner to say that the 'playing cards' actually were designed first. The integrity of the original design of playing cards has never changed! Only when card manufacturers produce decks with different faces to represent famous people of celebrities, but you ask them, those decks do not sell well or last long, therefore the original design is the true mystical symbolism of the cards!
Pages weren't royalty really, they were messengers or gophers for the royals!

Tarot has a way of going beyond the limits of definition,
like with the 21 Majors and then the unnumbered Fool.

12 Courts is a perfect fit for the Zodiac. 16 blows it away.
The pips tease us with a seeming 1 to 10 structure only to
fly away on the wings of the Aces. Not an everyday deck.

Whenever a "system" seems to "work" for Tarot, look out.
My approach is to grasp the knowable and go from there.

Fulgour said:

Tarot has a way of going beyond the limits of definition,
like with the 21 Majors and then the unnumbered Fool.

12 Courts is a perfect fit for the Zodiac. 16 blows it away.
The pips tease us with a seeming 1 to 10 structure only to
fly away on the wings of the Aces. Not an everyday deck.

Whenever a "system" seems to "work" for Tarot, look out.
My approach is to grasp the knowable and go from there.

Click to expand...

Hi
Although I cannot back up my affirmation with much data, my opinion is that the court cards were male :
valet, knight and king.

The 16 honours do represent a zodiac because the King of Spades has the sign of Jupiter in Sagittarius on the TdM.

The Four Queens represent for me the Four Angles of the Zodiac : Houses I+IV+VII+X = 22!
while the other 12 male figures correspond to the 12 signs.

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Regards

Hello Namadev

Namadev said:

The 16 honours do represent a zodiac because the King of Spades has the sign of Jupiter in Sagittarius on the TdM.

Click to expand...

This little design flair manifests in various ways, but looks
to be an ornate vine, not a specific glyph, on most decks.
I've often wondered about it and enjoy this interpretation.

Namadev said:

The Four Queens represent for me the Four Angles of the Zodiac : Houses I+IV+VII+X = 22! while the other 12 male figures correspond to the 12 signs.

Click to expand...

Houses one, four, seven, and ten, are for Cardinal signs,
which is the normal attribution for the Queens in Tarot.
To choose only four houses, would leave us with eight.

Namadev said:

Although I cannot back up my affirmation with much data, my opinion is that the court cards were male : valet, knight and king.

Click to expand...

Mamluk traditions, amongst others, would support this view.
Thank you for these insights, and very valuable opinions.
We share what is best about Le Tarot, it's elegant mystery.

The probable answer:

In the melding of British bardic lore with Jewish Gnosticism that produced Qabbalah (rabbis are blissfully unaware of this Keltic connexion), there are three 'mother letters', listed in SEFER YETZIRAH as alef-shin-mem (whose origin is the Logos, AUM, but that's another story). Alef is the wellspring whence letters arise and stands for the twenty-two trumps or tree-letters. Shin is bardic S, whose bardic number is sixteen, the number of court cards. Mem (mu) is (Graeco-)Hebrew forty, the number of pip cards.

The above might suggest we look especially to Graeco-Hebraic numeration for insights into the pip cards, and especially to bardic numeration for insights into court cards, as well as for matching trumps to letters, of course. In order from zero to twenty-one, bardic numeration is:

H-A-E-I-O-B-M-P-F-K-G-T-D-N-L-R-S-U-Q(Kk)-II-St(Ss)-Aa

but in Hebrew letters (bardically enumerated)

cheyt-alef-heh-zayin-ayin-beyt-mem-peh-SAMEKH-kaf-gimel-tav-dalet-nun-lamedh-resh-shin-vav-qof-yod-tzaddi-TEYT,

respectively.

Since the Marseilles is demonstrably from this tradition (whose teachings have been lost but partially reconstructed by me), methinks four in each suit the original, the Jack perhaps an amalgamation of Knight and Knave: he is Knight in social status but Knave in behavior. After all, Knight and Knave are first and second heh in the Name (spelt yud-heh-vav-heh), so Jack would be the letter heh itself, Knight and Knave its dual expression in the Name.