Beginner's questions

My Thoth deck has just arrived! For the past 20+ years I've only ever used the Rider Waite (I've also got the Swiss IJJ, but have never used it in a reading). The question is, really, how different can I expect to find using the Thoth?

I find the cards very beautiful, but I must say I don't find the images immediately easy to relate to - maybe because they are more stylised and abstract.

Also - some of the changes Crowley made (most glaringly for me substituting 'Lust' for Strength, with an image that seems to convey the very opposite meaning) seem to relate very specifically to Thelemic philosophy. How necessary is it to understand that / take it on board?

Part of the issue for me is probably some of the baggage around the 'Great Beast' himself. Like many people, I suspect, I find him a fascinating although not wholly attractive figure. I somehow wish I could separate the cards in my mind from whatever preconceptions I have about Crowley (which I am fully aware are probably false, anyway).

I suppose that ultimately these are things that I need to find out for myself, but any tips / pointers from more experienced users about how to relate the Thoth deck would be more than welcome. I feel that I need to 'make friends' with it somehow - but then maybe that in itself is the wrong approach... (Help!)

Oddly, for 20+ years I used the Thoth.
Recently I got a RWS.

Know what?
I don't particularly like it.
Some of the pics are nice, but the main problem with it is that it is not the Thoth.
And if I ever do read with it I just use it as a Thoth in disguise.

Funny world, really.

Best advice I can give is for you just to use it, try it and see.
Maybe you'll get on with it, maybe not.
Don't bother with the Thelema unless/until you want too.

As for Lust...
That's Babalon the great, mother of Harlots, riding on the back of the Beast of the Apocalypse.
She is, in fact, pretty lusty.

For me, after 20 years using one deck, I'll never get into another as deeply.
But it might be different for you.

How interesting--I also got the thoth a while ago and have not used it very much but I am planning on picking it back up when I get a hold of it again in about 3 days.

I also look forward to others thoughts as I have primarily used RWS and its cousins for reading and studying.

If it helps you, you might think about it as Frieda Harris's Thoth Tarot. She painted it, and probably deserves more credit for the deck anyway. Crowley is just more well known, so publishers can sell more decks with his name on it...

Understanding Crowley's Thoth Tarot is a great book for those new to the deck (as I am). Book of Thoth is a little.... harder to read due to Crowley's, ahem, ostentatious prose (but also perfectly approachable if you are willing to ignore the parts that don't immediatley make sense).

I don't know how to tell you to read it differently than RWS. The standard interpretations are parallel, in most cases, to the RWS, though if you have a long history with RWS, your interpretations might not be standard at all. Anything is going to be a bit strange after so long a time using the one deck. Give it some time, I think it will grow on you. It is such a deep deck, you certainly don't have to understand everything about it to use it.

I have to say- the more I use it, the less likely it seems that I'll ever read with another deck. I feel the call to start shedding unused decks.

-tb

Malygris said:

The question is, really, how different can I expect to find using the Thoth?

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Very!

I find the cards very beautiful, but I must say I don't find the images immediately easy to relate to - maybe because they are more stylised and abstract.

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You really have to live with this deck, carry it around, breathe it in. It's the gift that keeps on giving. Unlike any other deck with pips, these symbolic pips pack a wallop and are as evocative as any pictured pik in the RWS.

Also - some of the changes Crowley made (most glaringly for me substituting 'Lust' for Strength,

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Yes, Lust, a strong desire for something...in this case...for living life to the fullest as full as a human can and not get arrested, basically . You don't need to be steeped in Thelemic knowledge to use this deck. A bit of astrology might help though .

Part of the issue for me is probably some of the baggage around the 'Great Beast' himself.

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See post above. Lady Frieda Harris painted it and she didn't give a wiff for all that Hermetic stuff.

I suppose that ultimately these are things that I need to find out for myself,

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Absolutely. I've been using the Thoth for over two years now and although I do sometimes use one of my RWS clone decks for readings, this is my main deck for myself. It will take the rest of my life, methinks, to understand it even a little. But wow, does it give good readings. It is a deck that can intimidate. You just have to roll with it. Have fun.

Lawguy51

Thank you for the thread and opinions! I´m in the same boat see, last week I got a Thoth, and have only ever used the RWS... I´m a little overwhelmed by Thoth for now, but am very keen on learning how to reach it´s depth. It´s all about time and being open to it I suppose, as well as studying.
Anyways, you´ve motivated me even more now.

Thanks for the input, everyone. Some useful things to think about. It's interesting to hear from someone else in the same position (as well as someone in the oppsite1); Feticeira - we'll have to let each other know how we're getting on.

Just before I woke up this morning I had a very vivid dream in which I found myself looking straight at the Thoth's Fool in great detail. So - something's happening! A kind of introduction, perhaps? This is an unfamiliar experience for me, although I was looking at the cards just before I went to sleep. There are certainly some powerful images there. The suits have an elemental presence I hadn't picked up so strongly from the RW: the deck is really bursting with energy.

U.k

Hi malygris,
It's aiways nice to here people who enjoy useing the Thoth deck, it is a great deck of cards and i'am sure you wont want to change it for anything else.

I have been reading with the Thoth for sometime and i also have the Original Rider-Waite deck that is quite nice, but the Thoth details are much interesting to look at.

You might also look at Don Milo DuQuette's "Understanding Aleister Crowley's Thoth Tarot." It doesn't go in depth by any means, but it does explain a bit of the stuff about where he was comming from that you wouldn't otherwise know. (Thelema for dummies?) I for one am I bit put off by harlots and beasts and blood-of-saints stuff as a Christian, even though I know he was just thumbing his nose by using those and they don't mean the same thing. ;-) That book helped me get over it a bit. Of course, as everyone says, his own book is invaluable, and gets more approachable over time.

-Michael

MikeTheAltarboy said:

You might also look at Don Milo DuQuette's "Understanding Aleister Crowley's Thoth Tarot."

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I'm planning to get hold of that. I picked up a copy of DuQuette's "Magick of Aleister Crowley" from ebay, and that's quite an eye-opener that there was a lot more to Mr Crowley than his reputation might suggest.