Rider Waite 7 of Cups

paradoxx

To me the wreath is symbolic of victory, and the skull is the price that must be paid. Sometimes the price of victory is death, other times it is a sacrifice of some kind. Either way, victory is not cheap so be aware.
 

poivre

"...symbols of the gifts and tests to be handled during this life. These seven are:vanity, fame, ego illusion, jealousy, frivolity and glamour. All are nebulous(floating on clouds). They represent what the worldly person imagines are desirable, but as they are attained on by one, it is realized that they do not bring happiness or any real value in life".

This was in my notes.

I use this card for "the challenge of choosing".

Just extra info.
 

inanna_tarot

Laurel said:
I remember reading somewhere once that particular cup supposedly held the waters of Lethe, representing a spiritual death or death of consciousness brought on by over-indulgence in the material and a lack of awareness of consequences of one's actions.

Laurel

Emperors of Rome and Caesar springs to mind here!
With all their power they were stabbed in the back or just wackos like Nero. Death of the pure and victory to the not so pure?

Sezo
x
 

ScarabFlight

Shrouded figure

Another thought for the shrouded figure is that it relates to Masonry. From what I understand, it could be symbolic of De Molay being wrapped in a shroud after being beaten and questioned about Masonic secrets. It is also a part of the initiation ceremony in becoming a Mason. This could symbolize being brought into the inner circle and having access to "secret knowledge".
 

gloria

I can't believe I hadn't noticed the skull on the cup before now.
Have found these threads really interesting...but can someone tell me what the 'red fringing' around the shrouded figure symbolises?
G.
 

WalesWoman

ros said:
"...symbols of the gifts and tests to be handled during this life. These seven are:vanity, fame, ego illusion, jealousy, frivolity and glamour. All are nebulous(floating on clouds). They represent what the worldly person imagines are desirable, but as they are attained on by one, it is realized that they do not bring happiness or any real value in life".


Great quotes from your notes, Ros. It made me think of the seven deadly sins...that never seem so deadly when you are persuing them, on the surface they seem to be some of these things that seem to be worthy or have some value, but truly are feeding an ego or something empty inside that needs filled. Or maybe that is the whole point, there is an emptiness there that the person is trying to fill from the outside, rather than finding something of greater value within. And maybe that is why there is a skull, with gaining their desires comes the realization that it really isn't life at all, just a more glamourous emptiness. It reminds me of the live in the "now" concept, that sometimes we get so caught up in postponing happiness until things get just right, life will be good once this happens, or I get this or that, that we never get to enjoy what we have right now, time passed and suddenly you find yourself at Death's door, wondering where time went and why you were never satisfied, why that happiness and completion never occured, because there was always something else that needed to be attained before you could say you had it. It is the "Dream on" card. When I get it, I know I'm just having pipe dreams, usually great, unrealistic ones and need to get back to work and focus on creating attainable goals or maybe I just need to appreciate what I do have and make the most of it.
 

mmajere

"the 7 of cups"

it is usually time for choices - but probably the choices we make lead us to get near or further from the goals. the mists that hold the cups by the hands or forces that are all misery. when you get in mist you shall count on your nose, ears and touching/tasting abilities rather then the eye. (but if you have your 3rd one opened there are no mists for you.) in the second cup down from the right that has leaves of ceaser; there is a kind of reflection - a skull kind - of eyes and nose. this can mean first of all we all look the same cup or the cup is held by something old or not good.
 

Shinobi

The Contents of The Cups

As I have garnered much from this site to create my own deck: I feel I must divulge a secret to give something back...

We all bring our social 'norms' to the Tarot, though we often forget that this is an entire system brought together. The original religion was shamanism - the 'secrets' of all of the cults and religions, even the 'big 3' are shamanic in practice.

Dragons are symbols of 'Magical' knowledge...
Snakes are a representation of the 'sexual' power of the Universe...
A laurel is victory, but for what reason? What 'Victory' brings death?..
That is the head of 'John the Baptist' (or any other decapitee)...
The veiled figure is in a particular shape...

These are all allegories for magical potions and the resulting effects.

Snakes in cups are drugs. John the baptist is an allegory for the Sacramental Mushroom, indeed he is Dionysus re-cast, his name in Aramaic means 'Big Red Mushroom'. His head, worshipped by Templars is the state of ego death brought on by the potion.

Laurels (the same as on the world card and chariot) are being gathered from the Arthurian version of the Magic Garden which relates to the ancient knowledge of herbs and plants - which 'feminise' the masculine (again the world card). Xmas is known for its laurels, again the Amanita Muscaria mushroom is particularly associated with Xmas. The 'victory'
is the decoding and discovering before the Chariot/ Merkabah is sent off into ego death (the skull, like the head is without a body) and victory upon return, indeed the Laurel is worn on the head.

The Dragon: Reptiles have forked tongues right? Dragons do not! Take a closer look. Again, dragons are a collected symbol for ancient shamanism, they are eating mushrooms.

The veiled figure is the mushroom again, clearly...

The jewels/ philosophers stones are a well known allegory for mushrooms (on the earth plane), easily provable.

The cups themselves are a holy grail - the no.1 symbol for the Amanita mushroom as sacrament. Waite himself wrote many volumes on this topic and is an expert on the matter - he explicitly knows these are allegories. Indeed Crowley (whom pretty much gives away all of the secrets) associates this card completely with DRUGS AND MYSTICAL VISION.

If this upsets your Western ideology - then that makes me happy - you've been looking at this with the wrong eyes, I'm sorry for the jolt, but the truth is important.

I'll be happy to give references if any questions arise, however, as with all magical Tarot symbols, the truth is self-evident once the veil is pierced.
 

Abrac

Hi Shinobi.

I have to admit the shrouded figure does look like a mushroom. I've never noticed that before. A whole new way to look at this card. :)
 

ravenest

As I have garnered much from this site to create my own deck: I feel I must divulge a secret to give something back...

We all bring our social 'norms' to the Tarot, though we often forget that this is an entire system brought together. The original religion was shamanism - the 'secrets' of all of the cults and religions, even the 'big 3' are shamanic in practice.

You could start with providing a reference to this. ^

Do you mean Christianity, Islam, Judaism ? If so, they all appeared to have evolved out of Zoroastrianism. What are the 'secrets' you are referring to that 'are of' 'all cults and religions' ? Or are you including Buddhism and Vedanta ?

Or what about Bahai'i Religion? Its increasing in numbers as a world religion, in some places, faster than the populations growth.


Dragons are symbols of 'Magical' knowledge...
Snakes are a representation of the 'sexual' power of the Universe...


A laurel is victory, but for what reason? What 'Victory' brings death?..
That is the head of 'John the Baptist' (or any other decapitee)...

Can you explain why?

The veiled figure is in a particular shape...

sure is !

Have you ever read Liber Vesta ... a G.D. document (Waite was in the G. D. ) ;

" The Robe
of a Dominus Liminis

When this title is conferred by Authority, the Philosophus shall replace the Black Hood with a White Hood of the same material, with the Three Neteru in Blue below the eyes. Adepti appearing as Lords of the Paths shall cover the entire garment with Silver Gauze from head to foot"

http://www.e-reading.link/illustrations/85/85825-doc2fb_image_0200000A.jpg

These are all allegories for magical potions and the resulting effects.

here is a good place to supply a reference as well. Why are they all symbolising magical potions, and which one for each cup ... and do you mean vegetable or mineral drugs or 'magical potions'?

Snakes in cups are drugs. John the baptist is an allegory for the Sacramental Mushroom,

reference here too.

indeed he is Dionysus re-cast, his name in Aramaic means 'Big Red Mushroom'.

and here ...

His head, worshipped by Templars is the state of ego death brought on by the potion.

Supposedly they worshipped a head ... but why is it the state of ego death and what does it have to do with magical drug potions? Are you saying the Templars took Mushroom drug potions? Or the G.D ? I doubt that , as part of ritual and practice, maybe in private lives?

Or that Waite used psychotropic drugs in ritual ? If he did, they dont seem to have had much effect on his output and writings, many other influences are at work there.

Crowley ? Thats a different story. One of his great innovations was to introduce psychotropic drugs in ritual, he was the one that did magical experiments with mushrooms, and synthesised some himself, and it is even rumoured, introduced the substance to Europe ... but the time line here is wrong for Waite.

Laurels (the same as on the world card and chariot) are being gathered from the Arthurian version of the Magic Garden which relates to the ancient knowledge of herbs and plants - which 'feminise' the masculine (again the world card). Xmas is known for its laurels, again the Amanita Muscaria mushroom is particularly associated with Xmas.

This is muddled and hard to follow. Are you saying laurels and AM mushrooms are both associated with xmas, therefore the laurel in the cup represents a mushroom potion ?
If so, that seems a stretch ?

The 'victory'
is the decoding and discovering

of what ?

before the Chariot/ Merkabah is sent off into ego death (the skull, like the head is without a body) and victory upon return, indeed the Laurel is worn on the head.

No ... I dont understand that all .... I think its the way its written, cant fathom the meaning ..

The Dragon: Reptiles have forked tongues right?

Not all of them ;
http://www.totallyreptiles.net.au/blue tongue lizard.jpg


Dragons do not! Take a closer look.

And ... (yes it has a dragons tongue , many look like that, drawn with the tip of the tongue and the tip of the tail in the arrow head shape.

Are you pointing out that it does appear appear to be a dragon ? if so, yes, that seems fairly obvious.


Again, dragons are a collected symbol for ancient shamanism,

ref please. (collected ? ... collective ? )


they are eating mushrooms.

Huh ? Where? When? ... in the card ? ... what do you mean? Are you saying because there is a dragon in the cup it means magic mushroom potion ?

The veiled figure is the mushroom again, clearly...

I dont see why .... it appears to be veiled spectre , quite clearly. I can see the details of the body under the shroud, it even has hands sticking out the bottom. It doesnt suggest any sort of mushroom to me ... only vaguely at the top part and if I choose to blatantly ignore all the other indications of what it appears to be .

If anything it looks like a bad version of a Ghost ... or a hint about G.D. regalia .... again :
" Adepti appearing as Lords of the Paths shall cover the entire garment with Silver Gauze from head to foot"

The jewels/ philosophers stones are a well known allegory for mushrooms (on the earth plane), easily provable.

Please do ...


The cups themselves are a holy grail -
do you mean they all come together to make the Holy Grail ? Or each one is a grail?


the no.1 symbol for the Amanita mushroom as sacrament. Waite himself wrote many volumes on this topic and is an expert on the matter

He did? Waite wrote about the usage of Amanita Muscaria as the sacrament in the Grail. Cool! I would love to read that - reference please.


- he explicitly knows these are allegories. Indeed Crowley (whom pretty much gives away all of the secrets) associates this card completely with DRUGS AND MYSTICAL VISION.

? he does ?

" The Seven of Cups is called Debauch. This is one of the worst ideas that one can have; its mode is poison, its goal madness. It represents the delusion of Delirium Tremens and drug addiction; it represents the sinking into the mire of false pleasure. There is something almost suicidal in this card. It is particularly bad because there is nothing whatever to balance it-no strong planet to hold it up. Venus goes after Venus, and Earth is churned into the scorpion morass. "

Delusion, suicide and scorpion morass ... doesnt sound like mystical vision to me!

" the Lotuses have become poisonous, looking like tiger-lilies; and, instead of water, green slime issues from them and overflows, making the Sea a malarious morass. " ( The Book of Thoth - standard Thoth deck reference)

Sorry, poisonous green slime , no magical potion.

Actually, maybe you should take this on board (since you did try to use Crowley to boost up your idea) in regard to your idea of this representing a sacrament;

" This card is almost the "evil and averse" image of the Six; it is a wholesome reminder of the fatal ease with which a Sacrament may be profaned and prostituted."

If this upsets your Western ideology - then that makes me happy - you've been looking at this with the wrong eyes, I'm sorry for the jolt, but the truth is important.

It doesnt upset my western ideology at all (what ever that means, what ideology are you referring to? I practice shamanism. ), I am familiar with the such substances; usage and also history; shamanism and the use of Soma in early religion, and actually, it was part of the reason for the original Vedic / Iranian split in the P.I.E. peoples culture (along with animal sacrifice, cruelty to animals and idolatry, using drugs in sacred ritual was a central cause of division ).

The path you are looking for actually takes off through Vedanta; Yoga and other practices.
but the truth is important.

yes it is isnt it. I haven't seen it demonstrated at all in your ideas. So far they are badly framed, disjointed, as yet unreferenced, some mistaken and some, actually wrong.

There is thing called 'Pareidolia ' and 'confirmation bias' ... I think you better look it up.

Once you start looking for mushrooms (or anything else) everywhere ... you will find them through vague analogy and weak links and imaginings.
I'll be happy to give references if any questions arise, however, as with all magical Tarot symbols, the truth is self-evident once the veil is pierced.

Roll em out then ... lets see those references !

however, as with all magical Tarot symbols, the truth is self-evident once the veil is pierced.

This isnt some caveat that only those with certain vision will be able to see your connections and proofs is it ? Maybe you should explain what that means instead of being so cryptic?