Feelings and Pentacles, from lukewarm to non existent ?

Teheuti

He deals the cards to find the answer
The sacred geometry of chance
The hidden law of probable outcome
The numbers lead a dance
....
And if I told you that I loved you
You'd maybe think there's something wrong
I'm not a man of too many faces
The mask I wear is one
Those who speak know nothing
And find out to their cost
Like those who curse their luck in too many places
And those who smile are lost

Sting - "The Shape of My Heart"

Nikita_

Teheuti said:
I don't remember what I said in that context. Yes, there are times when I deliberately don't strip someone's delusions away in a fifteen-minute or hour reading, as I think that can be more damaging and hurtful than helpful. It doesn't have to involve lying; it can simply mean not brow-beating.

OTOH, comparing my interpretations to those of others on various forums, I find I sugar-coat far less than most people. When you see the mixed interpretations of readers on a forum and you see things differently than everyone else, then how do you know you are right and everyone else is wrong? To me the issue is not about being right or wrong, but about assisting someone in being able to meet whatever comes in the best possible way. In a reading I'm even willing to be 'wrong' if that helps someone discover their own truth and way.

BTW, there's a huge body of literature out there, from research in the last few years, that demonstrates all our delusions and self-lies. It's quite an eye-opener. A good starting place is:
Mistakes Were Made (But Not by Me): Why We Justify Foolish Beliefs, Bad Decisions, and Hurtful Acts by Carol Tavris and Elliot Aronson
and then for a more in-depth, scientific view:
Thinking, Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman who won the Nobel for this research.

I simply believe that I (even through my interpretation of the Tarot) don't have all the answers for everyone else, and the research in the books above seems to back this up.

I don't believe I have the answers for other people either, I believe the answers are inside each of us and Tarot shouldn't tell us anything we don't know already, deep down, being as it is a mirror for our subconscious and our magnetic field. All a tarot reader does is interpret that picture for the querents, as if the message arrived in a language that they can't understand, while we more or less can. Sometimes the querents recognise immediately that what we have picked up on through the cards is true, other times it comes to them as a surprise, depending on their level of self-awareness, or their willingness to open their eyes, etc.
I once read for a woman I met at a dinner at some friends house. As soon as they told her I read tarot, she insted I should read for her, she also read cards-not tarot-and she claimed she was psychic as well. I got a very negative vibe from her from the beginning, so I declined her offer to read for me, and I made an excuse to try and avoid reading for her, but she insisted so I did. She was a Pisces, I still remember, she was really messed up. I had never come across such murky, confused cards of bewilderment and confusion, inner turmoil over some issues, as well as the more mundane stuff to do with drugs in her past, a very negative relationship with a man n her present, and continued infidelity on his part which was very painful for her to deal with. After I finished, she had a kind of breakdown. She got upset and angry with me, and she blamed me for her altered state. She said she was in a really good mood when she had arrived, and now she felt like she was overwhelmed by all this negative stuff that had come up, as if I was responsible for it. I tried to keep calm and explained to her that she might have felt cheerful and happy when she had arrived, but it was clearly a fake front, and tarot was nothing but a picture of her real state, and it had picked up on her deepest fears, otherwise, how would I know about all that stuff ? One of the things she blamed me for, was that apparently I had sadistically put my finger on all her greatest fears....I mean, it would be like going into psychotherapy and then blaming the doctor for digging out all the traumatic, unpleasant stuff....it's their job, for gods sake ! You have to feel much worse, before you can get better...!
As one of my mentors when I was going to be a therapist myself (and we were forced to go to therapy ourselves) once said : ' you can bury the bad stuff deep inside your brains as much as you like. You're still carrying it around with you all day, it's in your head, darling."
My point is, telehui, tarot readers are nothing but photographers of the subconscious. The least we can do is take pictures that will be as close to reality as we can. And show them to the people in question.

Kgirl

Nikita_ said:
I do like some of your definitions, kgirl. I'll get back to you tomorrow though, it really late here.

Nikita

Have you any thoughts or feedback to offer to my post?

Thanks

Nikita_

Kgirl said:
Nikita

Have you any thoughts or feedback to offer to my post?

Thanks

Sorry about the delay, Ill get back to you soon, I promise...I got stuck with some work...I'll go through your list as soon ad I can, promise

Kgirl

Nikita_ said:
Sorry about the delay, Ill get back to you soon, I promise...I got stuck with some work...I'll go through your list as soon ad I can, promise

Interestingly, I note the many posts you've had since then where work didn't stop you and you have not bothered with mine.

It is one of the problems with this forum and it can be a disincentive to help people when they ask questions and yet your help doesn't open any thoughtful discourse and doesn't warrant the time by the OP poster. I guess its just common courtesy too.

Nikita_

Kgirl said:
Interestingly, I note the many posts you've had since then where work didn't stop you and you have not bothered with mine.

It is one of the problems with this forum and it can be a disincentive to help people when they ask questions and yet your help doesn't open any thoughtful discourse and doesn't warrant the time by the OP poster. I guess its just common courtesy too.

I wanted to go through your list taking my time, and after thinking about all of the cards one by one. I did comment on a couple of your meanings in other posts, but if I am to reason on the list properly it's not the same as exchanging views on discursive posts as they come up. When a thread gets as many replies as this, it's a bit hard to keep up. I have always replied to everyone in my threads, which tend to attract more replies that I can deal with properly. If you check you'll see that I have never ignored any replies in the end.

Nikita_

Kgirl said:
Pentacles can be a physical manifestation of the feelings. A brief run down for me:

Ace of Pentacles - feeling like you have a real shot at someone, will have an opportunity to be physically close, see someone as real relationship material. Start of building someone solid, not fleeting

Two of Pentacles - as Griz beautifully described, this can mean meeting someone, being in their physical presence. It can mean juggling two people, trying to keep the momentum going, testing someone's interest, trying to stay on your good side. Moving your schedule around to meet a date.

Three of Pentacles - admiring someone, working with someone. Open to negotiating through issues, open to meeting someone half-way. Importance of getting along with a third party, building on the initial spark of the Ace.

Four of Pentacles - withholding feelings, shutting off, keeping your opinions to yourself, staying tight-lipped, shutting people out, not budging, being stubborn

Five of Pentacles - feeling unloved, feeling left out, feeling like you're not good enough or worthy. Sticking to someone through thick and thin

Six of Pentacles - knowing something is owed, giving only what you're prepared to give, an obligation, an imbalance, a sexual exchange, giving to someone who needs help, knowing someone will help

Seven of Pentacles - wondering if its worth it, feeling impatient, a sign that the love you have given is felt and will be reciprocated, stepping back and reconsidering

Eight of Pentacles - devotion, dedication, commitment, fascination with details about you, utterly focused. An example, running around to make sure a dinner is perfect, the restaurant is right, the parking is sorted, you've got enough money etc

Nine of Pentacles - admiring a beautiful and independent woman, someone not threatened by your independence and success, someone who is happy to be on their own, someone who is self sufficient

Ten of Pentacles - building a solid family life, meeting the family, fitting in with their heritage, thinking long term, purchasing a beautiful home, impact of family's legacy

Page of Pentacles - being fascinated by someone in a new way, noticing someone for the first time, admiring someone's beauty, wanting more physical closeness, outwardly demonstrating interest

Knight of Pentacles - shyness, being humble, slow to move, slow to approach, feeling perhaps that they're not good enough, devoted, committed, slow to get to know you, slow to open up

Queen of Pentacles - the secure woman, the stable woman, earthy sexiness, sensible, practical, the "other" woman, the wife, runs the home, not necessarily exciting or stands out but dependable. The type of woman that you feel wouldn't reject you

King of Pentacles - Committed man, family man, manages money, cares about finances, home man, settled, happy, a bit boring but dependable. Wants to take care of you

However, here's what I think about your list-
I agree on the ace, and I can see how the interpretation of the 2 you gave could work, in a certain context.
The 3 seems to me a good standard interpretation, although all I can say is that to me it's always come up as a card of silence and not much progress for people who were not a couple yet-and where there wasn't a third party whatsoever involved.
The 4, 5 and six I agree, although I'm not sure what you meant by sexual exchange-as far as I know, every sexual act involves an exchange of some kind....even if just biological....the point is, it it even and equal as it should be, in this case ?
I do like the idea of the 7 as wondering if it's worth it, stepping back and reconsidering. It implies some doubt, I may add.
The eight I believe I've already commented in another post. I agree with the gist, I just find it very hard to apply all that to the idea of romance....I can't stretch my imagination so far as to think the guy there is planning a romantic dinner. But maybe that's me and my limits.
The 9, yes, I can see what you are saying. These meanings could apply to the card when projecting on someone else, but depending on the position and the context, it can be a card of being alone and enjoying it.
The ten can mean everything you say-which is the standard meaning- but also a completion as in ending-I've come across that meaning of the card too often for anybody to convince me of the opposite.
Nice interpretation of the page. I had never come across it, I'll take it into account in the future.
The knight, well the idea of slowness is definitely its main trait...as for shy and humble, I had never heard it before...might be.
I'd say the king and queen correspond to my idea of them, I'd say the king, besides being boring, is also stubborn.
Have a good night.

bast

3 of pentacles

I know this is an old tread. The 3 of pentacles came for me when asking about a love interested that was a co-worker.

So the 3 of pentacles just meant we were going to see each other at work and work together. This card can simply means a coworker.

Way more a card of work than relationhip to me.

Feelings and Pentacles, from lukewarm to non existent ?

Teheuti

Nikita_

Kgirl

Nikita_

Kgirl

Nikita_

Nikita_

bast